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  1. TKD Boxer is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/31/2002 10:08am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just read a book and it was talking about why early UFC was Safer than Boxing. It said this because the padded gloves caused it so you could hit over and over again, and did more brain damage, where as th bare fist would just have bruises. What do you all think about it?
  2. Mercurius is offline
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    Wandering Daoist

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    Posted On:
    12/31/2002 10:36am

    supporting member
     Style: Karate, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    (looks at the title)
    Most girls I know prefer two fingers, but that's beside the point.

    At any rate, it's a comparison of more damage immediately vs. less damage over time. In a UFC fight, it's gonna be over in less than 15 minutes, and you're not gonna throw but 100 punches and land about half. A boxing match can go 12 rounds and see each fighter land something like 500 punches.

    The danger in boxing comes from more cumulative damage than immediate. A guy might come out of a UFC match looking worse than a guy coming out of a boxing ring, but what about those same two guys at the end of their career? The UFC guy isn't going to be half as fucked up as the boxer, even if the boxer is good.

    As for padded gloves vs. bare fist, I don't know that if you hit as much with a bare fist as you did with gloves that there would be less brain damage, but you're definitely going to do less brain damage to a guy if you hit him with 50 punches barefisted and knock him out than if you hit him with 500 gloved and keep fighting.

    "God is dead." -Nietzsche
    "Nietzsche is dead." -God

    Edited by - Mercurius on December 31 2002 09:38:34
    "The morning glory blooms for an hour. It differs not at heart from the giant pine, which lives for a thousand years."
  3. JKDChick is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/31/2002 1:03pm

    staff
     Style: JKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Plus, because you can go to the ground and win by submission, you aren't as focussed on head punching. As a friend of mine said recently (his bosses are both Brazilian and train BJJ) that they feel as long as you can take that first hit, the fight is yours. I.E. Get hit once to get in, take them to the ground and sub their ass.

    You get more serious IMMEDIATE injuries (shattered ankles, broken bones, Ken Shamrock's mutilated pride after Ortiz made him look like a little girl) but I have to think it makes sense to say there's less repetative hit injury.

    "I'm not tense; just terribly, terribly alert."
    Monkey Ninjas! Attack!
  4. Bolverk is offline

    Ex-ATA and Proud of it.

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    Posted On:
    12/31/2002 1:23pm


     Style: Jeet Kune Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The logic behind the claim is rather simple. You can deliver a heavier blow with less damage to the hands with gloves on. Since you will not be breaking the bones in your hands, you can rain down blow after blow with more force. The brain does not care if your hands are padded, it will still move around inside your skull from the force, which is what causes the damage to the brain tissue. That is why brain damage is more likely in boxers then with fighters who wear no hand protection.

    There have been alot of studies done on this particular aspect of boxing, and many doctors feel that gloves in boxing may protect the fighters hands, but cause more damage to the brain because each blow is delivered with maximum force. Bare fisted fighters of the past had far fewer instances of brain damage, but suffered a higher degree of injuries to the hands. When your hands are broken, you can not punch as hard because of the pain factor.


    Knowing it is not enough, we must apply.
    Willing is not enough, we must do.
    Knowing it is not enough, we must apply.
    Willing is not enough, we must do.

    Never approach a Bull from the front, a Horse from the rear, or a Fool from any direction!

    He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Payne
  5. SRyuFighter is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/31/2002 2:11pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good point Bolverk.

    Bring out the windbreakers, I feel a storm coming on!
  6. Bolverk is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/31/2002 4:15pm


     Style: Jeet Kune Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Does anyone remember the championship fight between Ray 'Boom Boom' Mancini and South Korean challenger Duk Koo Kim, on November 13th, 1982? The fight lasted 14 rounds. Kim sustained brain injuries that led to his death 6 days later.

    It is doubtful that anyone could pound someone that hard for that long with bare hands. You would probably break every bone in your hands very early on if you were hitting with that much force. Sugar Ray Leonard suffered broken hands during some of his fights even with gloves on. It greatly diminished his punching power, though he did not lose every bout when he did fight with broken hands.


    Knowing it is not enough, we must apply.
    Willing is not enough, we must do.
    Knowing it is not enough, we must apply.
    Willing is not enough, we must do.

    Never approach a Bull from the front, a Horse from the rear, or a Fool from any direction!

    He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Payne
  7. CrimsonTiger is offline
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    RAAAAAAR! Fear the Tiger!

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    Posted On:
    12/31/2002 5:08pm

    supporting member
     Style: Karate/Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, I've noticed that with my bagwork and heavy-glove sparring. Everyone becomes more of a headhunter...boxing definitely takes more of a toll than bareknuckle.

    I'm one of the few who uses body shots...although most people don't seem affected by them during the rounds. It seems body blows take longer to sink in and affect them...slowly pick them apart, slow them down. (Unfortunately, if they're good, I don't have the TIME to wait for that. LOL!)

    Back to my point...do body blows really work without gloves? I've noticed punches basically become useless in MMA and arts such as MT when the gloves are off. From my understanding, that's why the elbows and knees became prevalent.



    Regards,
    CrimsonTiger

    "You sure talk a lot. Are you going to train at all tonight, or just stand there the whole time?" -Sempai Dale
    Regards,
    CrimsonTiger

    "Na'h, they should go to old school rules.
    One guy gets sword and sheild, the other gets a net and a trident.
    Lions eat christians between rounds." - Strong Machine
  8. cyberstalker is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/31/2002 11:31pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Many of us train to increase our punching power, it kind of begs the question of "can you increase your punching power beyond your hands ability to take it?" Also, it doesn't matter where you hit when you have gloves one. Bare knuckle fighting requires careful targeting, and which is why many boxers break their hands in street fights.
  9. Carbon is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/01/2003 1:20am


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Most of the time I see people try to hit on the arc of the eye or on the forehead is where I see alot of street fight strikes going.

    I don't understand why people never strike for the jaw, this is just my opinion also if you hit a guy hard enough in the jaw to break your hand he is going to be phased I don't give a **** who he is.
    I'll make one when I can find one I like.
  10. CrimsonTiger is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/01/2003 1:41pm

    supporting member
     Style: Karate/Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's hard to hit the jaw, because many people tuck it. (It's instinctive, just watch someone imitating a boxer.)

    I know some boxers/thai fighters who can still hit pretty damn hard gloves-off. But you're right, many gloved fighters do end up screwing themselves in a gloves-off situation.


    Regards,
    CrimsonTiger

    "You sure talk a lot. Are you going to train at all tonight, or just stand there the whole time?" -Sempai Dale
    Regards,
    CrimsonTiger

    "Na'h, they should go to old school rules.
    One guy gets sword and sheild, the other gets a net and a trident.
    Lions eat christians between rounds." - Strong Machine
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