Martial Arts

**MAguy** · Posted On: 12/30/2002 10:13am

I understand that everyone is very interested in the effectiveness of the martial arts. I also absolutely believe it is a necissity; however in many posts that i have read on this site...all that people really seem to stress is "effectiveness". Some completely disregard traditional KATA's but then where is the spiritual side of karate or any traditional asian martial art. When I do Katas (thankfully because i luckily train under a real master,I KNOW what the moves are intended for =))there is a certain flow to them, it helps strength my body, develop a great center of gravity, and just relax my mind in a state of harmony. Heavy influence of martial arts came from the shaolin temple, a place of peace, harmony and Chan Buddhism. I personally believe that the martial arts help the world into a better place. Let's face it, not all of us will be the the Frank or Ken Shamrocks of tomorrow, and if everyone merely learned only the "effective", physical side of the martial arts, our world would be a complete battlezone. Everyone would be without morals of justice and virtue and be cocky, confident that they could beat someone up. Let's face it, many would wrongfully abuse this power. There is much influence in the asian arts to not fight, to be peaceful and possibly create a world without such needless violence. What do you think Okinawan masters had to go through? They fought nearby invaders with mere farm tools as weapons(nunchaku)and their empty hands, yet after their experience, they still heavily influenced peace in their art. I'm not bashing everyone's thoughts of "effectiveness" in the martial arts. I'm just possibly reminding to all of those who only stress real fighting, disregarding the rich philsophies of life the martial arts have. The Martial Arts have made me a better person, without it, I wouldn't try so hard in school nor help others out when they're in need. Without these philosphies, the martial arts would not be an art, it would merely be streetfighting. effectiveness is absolutely needed in the martial arts, but do not forget that they are more than effective physical attacks, they are a way of life. If you want to be the toughest man on the block, go to the marines or military, or own a gun, you should be adequately capable of defending yourself.

**The Wastrel** · Posted On: 12/30/2002 11:03am

I get from my philosophy from Marcus Aurelius (not the "Gladiator" version), Immanuel Kant, Diogenes, Eratosthenes, William James et al. I don't need some half-baked mysticism. I understand your point, but the ethos that the martial arts presents is incoherent and incomplete.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

**Choke** · Posted On: 12/30/2002 11:41am

I agree martial arts has given me a lot of structure over the last couple of years. I think martial arts is great for kids too.

Cast in the name of God. Ye not guilty.

**Mr. Donkeypenis** · Posted On: 12/30/2002 12:47pm

Martial arts were INTENDED for the battlefield and these days, a vast majority falls short.

The "peace and harmony" stuff has it's root in Buddhism, but is NOT a part of the martial arts.

These beliefs were cultivated because some instructors felt it would be beneficial to encourage these tenants of Buddhism so their students wouldn't go out and maim or kill someone. Most instuctors encourage "peace and harmony" because they don't want their students to get the **** beat out of them and see how useless it really is.

From "peaceful" Chinese monks to Okinawan freedom fighters, full contact contests (Dojo arashi) were put up to see who was better. If you tried to teach martial arts in a town and someone caught wind of it in those days, you can guarantee you'd be putting your ass on the line to prove you were a "master". If you backed down I doubt you (hypothetical, of course) would have any students left to teach.

MMA is a rebirth of this.

That doesn't mean that all MA are thugs. It is an instructor's responsibility (and one sadly not upheld by many) to be selective about who they teach. Those that don't have the mental discipline (or who are just plain nuts) should not learn effective MA.

Punching and kicking doesn't make you a better person, only you or your faith in God can.

Martial arts is only one facet of self-defense. Of course owning a gun works, but you don't always have a gun. Likewise, if you wouldn't give a certain person a gun, don't teach him MA either.

A.K.A MEAT

**SamHarber** · Posted On: 12/30/2002 1:48pm

Eastern martial arts philosophy is irrelevant to us through differences of both era and culture. The spiritual aspects espoused as being of benefit these days could as easily be gained from gardening as from wing chun (hard work and applied knowledge giving measurable beneficial results).
If you call an MA a fighting style instead, you place the onus of spiritual self improvement back on the individual, where it belongs. There may have been a reason in the past to integrate the physical with the spiritual, but that need no longer exists.

**MartialArtist** · Posted On: 12/30/2002 4:24pm

A lot of the philosophy does have its uses. The idea of honor, integrity, etc. can be applied by anyone of anywhere.

You don't need the spiritual aspect, but YOU DO NEED THE MENTAL ASPECT

How many commercial MMAists have a session where they just meditate to clear their mind, relax them, and a way to calm down just like that?

The mind is what makes a MAist complete, the unity of mind and body. Meaning you can do all the physical moves yet keep everything flowing without anger.

Mike Tyson of all people meditate. After visiting an aikido school and getting locked up during just a friendly sparring match, he began to meditate to help clear his mind of troubles right before a bout and during his free time. It may not be evident to a lot of you with what the media shows, but if you look at the first few rounds of any of his bouts, he remains calm. However, I do stress the first few rounds, not the entire fight.

**Boyd** · Posted On: 12/30/2002 5:19pm

Let's face it, not all of us will be the the Frank or Ken Shamrocks of tomorrow, and if everyone merely learned only the "effective", physical side of the martial arts, our world would be a complete battlezone.

Well thank God we've got a couple million traditional martial artists preventing our world from falling to the all-consuming dark menace of sport fighting.

Edited by - boyd on December 30 2002 17:20:33

**Vargas** · Posted On: 12/30/2002 7:56pm

Funny, some of the most arrogant, dishonest people I've ever met held advanced belts in traditional martial arts. Conversely, some of the nicest, most honorable people I've had the pleasure of knowing were professional cage-fighters. Be very careful of stereotyping people by what fighting skills they practice, because the truth can be a hard thing to pin down.

And heaven forbid that everyone learned to defend themselves and stopped being a bunch of potential victims. Imagine, a world of citizens who could stop being sheep waiting for some mugger or rapist to ruin their day. The horror! (This is the part where the forum starts singing "Everybody was Kung Fu fighting!. . .")

Finally, I hate to burst your bubble, MAguy, but just being in the military or owning a gun doesn't make you tough. Toughness is a mental thing, it has nothing to do with employment, size, muscles, weapon ownership or participation in the martial arts. Some people are born with it, most have to learn it. Unfortunately, I really can't describe toughness. It's kind of like obscenity, I just know it when I see it. Now, I'm sure you agree with that thought, so maybe I just misunderstood your post. Wouldn't be my first time.

And for whoever keeps using that Mike Tyson story, dude, we get the point. In my honest opinion, though, Tyson is done. He's grasping at straws and if he thinks some half-assed meditation is going to help him against someone like the Klitchko brothers, Tyson is even dumber than I thought. Tyson is pathetic, as his press conferences make abundantly clear. He's just living off a rapidly dwindling reputation that was built 10 years ago. Watch his last fight against Lewis again, that's not being calm, that's called being passive and well on your way to getting your ass kicked. I also like the qualifying (Tyson meditates, but it doesn't show in press conferences, or his private life or the last 8 rounds of his fights. Just the first couple of rounds or something like that.)

I'm trying to think of a worse poster-child for meditation but I'm having a pretty hard time.

**The Wastrel** · Posted On: 12/30/2002 8:16pm

"Conversely, some of the nicest, most honorable people I've had the pleasure of knowing were professional cage-fighters."

Vargas, this reminds me of the difference between a garrison unit and a field unit. I never saw combat (thank God), but a friend of mine who was in the Gulf War said that, "People got a lot more polite when they started passing out live rounds."

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

**Vargas** · Posted On: 12/30/2002 8:44pm

Hell, the nicest guy I ever met in submission wrestling was a retired U.S. Army MSgt who had spent the last 15 years at Ft. Bragg being a team leader for you-know-who. Paul was without a doubt the humblest, most laid-back person in our dojo. However, put a pistol or M-4 in his hands and he owned anything in a 100 meter radius (I got to go shooting with him once. I felt like a Little Leaguer going to a batting cage with Barry Bonds). I never knew door-kickers could be that polite.