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  1. Kensai is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2002 1:08pm


     Style: Aikido and Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I quiet like Wado, the founder studied with O Sensei Ueshiba (Aikido founder). It has some nice techniques.

    Fights like girl, Karate like most TMA dont actually teach you fighting, I guess they teach you the prinicples. Take Tai Chi (not very popular in these parts), is taught with slow movements. But these stances are SOOOO hard to hold for a prolonged period. Over time you can hold them for hours. These guys, chi or no chi, are pretty powerful. You would not fight that slowly in real life as you would get destoryed, but the slow movements develope strong powerful muscles. Same with Wado, holding those stances (properly) will make you sweat and ache. Power comes with practice.

    Your in Aiki.

    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered,
    those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.
    Thus the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." -O Sensei Ueshiba
  2. The Wastrel is offline
    The Wastrel's Avatar

    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2002 1:12pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fights-Like-Girl:
    Rigid styles like Shotokan do not have more stength. There are really elementary physical principles that explain why soft styles actually generate more power. I will attack the concept of qi relentlessly, but I will never maintain that the motion taught by internal arts, or for that matter boxing, wrestling and host of others, are unsound. Linear motions "pass through zero" (my phrase for it). I left the Chinese martial arts because of the nonsense of the internal/external distinction. Most of our students thought we were a "soft" school and seriously believed that Karate stylists were walking around throwing punches and kicks with tense bodies and rigid limbs, and that boxers constantly throw wild haymakers. Another popular idea was that more muscle reduced power and that muscular people were more susceptible to injury. Circular motions generate an immense amount of power and preserve it for a series of strikes. The key is to tighten your circles to the point that they are almost invisible so that you do not telegraph. I think the principles of TMA's are sound, but the pedagogy is ALL FUCKED UP. Linear motion can also be immensely powerful, rear foot drive with weight on a floating forward foot puts the entire body weight into a strike. Look at the young George Foreman. He hit HARD because of this.

    **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  3. Vargas is offline
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    The Man with No Neck

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2002 1:15pm

    supporting member
     Style: submission wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You are definitely asking the right questions, Fights_like_girl. Martial arts shouldn't be rocket science. If a technique makes absolutely no sense, especially when tried on someone fully resisting, speak up and ask your instructor for clarification. I have a sneaky feeling that a lot of dojo's discourage any skeptical questioning when it comes to what is being taught. Skepticism (when politely applied) is good, it forces your style to prove itself and maybe even improve in the long run. If the style you practice hasn't been modified in 1,000 years, that's not a good thing.
    "I had once talked to Billy Conn, the boxer, about professionals versus amateurs - specifically street fighters. One had always heard rumors of champions being taken out by back-alley fighters. Conn was scornful. "Aw, it's like hitting a girl," he said. "They're nothing."


    - George Plimpton
    "Shadow Box"
  4. fights_like_girl is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2002 1:30pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've got another question: Is shinbone hardening required for solid low roundhouses?
    Ive been watching k1 recently and these guys can seriously pound their legs around.
    Do the karateka that dont practice body hardening just stick to using the ball of the foot?
    Ive tried hitting some stuff with my shin and MAN THAT HURTS!
  5. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2002 1:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fights-Like-Girl:
    Remember what you are really training to strike- another human body, not a piece of wood. That said, both shinbones should be of basically equal stregth, which means...potential disaster. If you are fighting someone who has done a lot of Muay Thai or even Taekkyon, prepare to break a bone. When I was at the height of my Taekkyon skills, I hard-sparred a Karateka. Taekkyon teaches low kick defense that seems similar to Muay Thai. We just lift the targeted leg a little and turn it outward to point the hard part of the knee at the approaching foot/leg. It requires very little motion and can devastate an incoming kick. In my first few months of Taekkyon I learned to despise Oppo-chagi (any TKD'er know what this corresponds to in English?) because it would just blast itself to bits to accomplish, at best, a charley horse on the thigh. There's a really nasty video on this site that demonstrates this. A Taekkyonggun will let you kick the outside of his thigh all day, that is until he traps your leg and puts you on your ass. Or worse, traps your leg and stomps on your standing shin. I guess the answer is condition your shins, and preserve them at all costs. Don't make contact with your shin's "sweet spot", I think it should be lower on the leg.

    **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  6. JKDChick is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/29/2002 1:45pm

    staff
     Style: JKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you're hitting with your shin, and it hurts so much you can't continue, (I'm not being sarcastic) you're probably doing it wrong, or hitting closer to the instep or up towards the knee. We do tonnes of shin kicks and while it can smart a little if you generate the proper amount of power, the contact area is broad and solid and shouldn't be a huge source of pain.

    Everyone's different though. You could have more nerve endings or something.

    "I'm not tense; just terribly, terribly alert."
    Monkey Ninjas! Attack!
  7. fights_like_girl is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2002 1:56pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "We just lift the targeted leg a little and turn it outward to point the hard part of the knee at the approaching foot/leg. It requires very little motion and can devastate an incoming kick"

    funny you should mention it. This is exactly how ernesto hoost won the semi final of the k1 championship this year. He spotted the incoming roundhouse, lifted his knee slightly and bang, his opponent was on the floor.

    JKDchick I dont think it's my nerves, I know you're just supposed to hit muscle. I just wanted to test what it would feel like if you miss and hit someones thighbone or something. ouch.
  8. CrimsonTiger is offline
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    RAAAAAAR! Fear the Tiger!

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2002 2:12pm

    supporting member
     Style: Karate/Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey, Wastrel...just out of curiousity, what "cat stance" in Goju Ryu is 'ridiculous' to you? I'm a Goju guy (well, I'm a lot of things, but my dan rank is Goju, so we'll use that for simplicity. ;P) I'm just curious, not offended or anything.

    Wado Ryu is a nice style...my Sensei is heavily influenced by it (he was a student of Shintani Sensei here in Canada). But over time, as with all other arts, it tends to proliferate and change SIGNIFICANTLY from school to school.

    Fights_Like_Girl (I think I've seen you on www.fightingarts.com too?)...a bit of shin conditioning helps (hitting a heavy bag), but really what it does is teach you WHERE to hit without pain, it doesn't really "harden" anything. Conditioning doesn't HARDEN anything...your bones and muscles are made of certain materials with certain maximum properties. Its how they work TOGETHER that makes some seem stronger/harder than others.

    I don't do extensive shin training, but my low kicks have really improved lately (or so I'm told)...I just spend 15 minutes hitting a heavy back, trying different things, playing with techniques for kicking. *shrug* Tradition is great, but spend some time outside of class to learn things. You'll love the results.

    Regards,
    CrimsonTiger

    "You sure talk a lot. Are you going to train at all tonight, or just stand there the whole time?" -Sempai Dale
    Regards,
    CrimsonTiger

    "Na'h, they should go to old school rules.
    One guy gets sword and sheild, the other gets a net and a trident.
    Lions eat christians between rounds." - Strong Machine
  9. Freddy is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2002 2:37pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Be Happy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Crimsontiger- The cat stance is pretty good if someone tries to kick your front leg at least you have a better chance of not having your knee busted.
    BTW are you in the Wado Kai association? I use to train in that style (wado-ryu)soooo many years ago.

    PEACE!
    Ghost of Charles Dickens
  10. JKDChick is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/29/2002 3:09pm

    staff
     Style: JKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The lifted knee destruction is basic JKD, too. You can actually snap someone's shin with that move -- be careful.

    "I'm not tense; just terribly, terribly alert."
    Monkey Ninjas! Attack!
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