[Airyu]

Hello Omar,

Lot's of politics in the PTK world (as well as most martial arts) I would still recommend that you train anywhere and with everyone you can. Each has their own "flavor" to the art. Just be careful of all the minefields between the various groups.

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

www.Bujinkandojo.net

[Matt Bernius]

I second what Airyu said. Try and learn from everyone.

If you have to choose, I'd suggest going with someone currently under Gaje (Airyu may have a different view). Over the last decade the art has transformed and evolved quite a bit. From a tactical fighting side, Gaje's material (influenced by people like Jun Deleon) seems like it is better arranged from an instructional stand point.

- Matt

[Airyu]

Hello Guys,

No preference on my end. I do recommend that you meet GT Gaje and ever other modern master that there is. Life is too short to not avail ourselves to these great teachers.

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

www.Bujinkandojo.net

[lama_xy]

Omar,

Meynard/Strawdog should be able to hook you up?

[lhommedieu]

Originally Posted by Matt Bernius

Kuya,

Nice job detailing the break. Matches everything I've been told by various people on the inside.

BTW, do you know anything about a David Wink. He was supposed to be another of the early PKT guys along with Bisio, McGrath, the Sayoc Brothers, and Omar. But I haven't heard much about him.

- Matt

Matt,

Dr. David Wink is a senior researcher at the National Cancer Institute. He still teaches Pekiti in the Washington, D.C. area. I met him briefly last year - great skills, nice guy.

Best,

Steve Lamade

[Matt Bernius]

Originally Posted by lhommedieu

Dr. David Wink is a senior researcher at the National Cancer Institute. He still teaches Pekiti in the Washington, D.C. area. I met him briefly last year - great skills, nice guy.

Hi Steve,

I met Dr. Wink two years ago at a training seminar. I thought he was excellent. My understanding is he, along with Bill McGrath, Tom Bisio, and Eric Knaus, was in Gaje's first class. But I just hadn't turned up much on him. And the Pekiti folks that I knew hadn't heard of him. So I was interested in getting a bit more on his background.

Either way, his material and execution was good. Very old school Pekiti (as opposed to the more recent formulations).

- Matt

[selfcritical]

Originally Posted by mr. gordo

I've been doing some research and it seems that "Timothy D. Waid" only started studying Pekiti-Tirsia in 88. "Bill McGrath" seems to have trained much earlier in 1975. Tom Bisio and Bill McGrath seems to be the two prodigies of Pekiti-Tirsia. Bisio having left Pekiti-Tirsia to study San Miguel Eskrima and Ba Gua, with Bill McGrath to be left as the most senior of the Pekiti-Tirsia members. What's boggling my mind is how Timothy D. Waid was chosen as "succesor." ???

I imagine McGrath (who IMHO does have the complete system of Pekiti-Tirsia) started studying with other kali teachers, and Gaje did not appreciate this (which seems typical with the elders in the martial arts subculture). I imagine Gaje pretty much screwed McGrath out of his rightful position as succesor because he didn't approve of McGrath cross training with other teachers, and gave succesorship to Timothy Waid.

Can anyone else clarify on this? Does my theory sound about right, or am I off?



mr. gordo

.

As an instructor, the only complaint i've heard about bill mcgrath(who by all accounts is at least somewhat talented) is that as you advance in the system he has a tendency to make things more complicated, rather than aggressively simplifying.

[selfcritical]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

That's one hornet's nest I won't put a stick up. I hear it's a very bad idea to even mention Grand Tuhon Gaje's name around them.

Chris sayoc has nothing but respectful things to say about tuhon gaje. Both heads of the systmems get more than a little annoyed when you suggest that their system is just a copy of the other one.

[lhommedieu]

Originally Posted by selfcritical

Bill Mcgrath had a religious conversion, and his new moral outlook didn't approve very much of Tuhon Gaje, and was a little vocal about it. Tuhon gaje has a bit of a macho streak, and handled it in a less than diplomatic fashion.

That's not a bad way of describing their break. I'm not sure how "vocal" Tuhon McGrath was about their differences; I've heard that he took a personal stand over a couple of issues and eventually they parted company - but that's just hearsay. I would add that I've been to several of his seminars and he has always spoken modestly and respectfully about the man that he still refers to as "my teacher." Grand Tuhon Gaje took the break very badly but of late has abstained from talking about his student. There has been a recent spate of McGrath-bashing by some of GT Gaje's students - all of whom who should know better - which is probably driven by the desire to promote student enrollment and garner leadership rights.

As an instructor, the only complaint i've heard about bill mcgrath(who by all accounts is at least somewhat talented) is that as you advance in the system he has a tendency to make things more complicated, rather than aggressively simplifying.

I'd say that "at least somewhat talented" is a bit of an understatement. Tuhon Bill was promoted by Grand Tuhon Gaje to Tuhon rank and was asked to run his Pekiti Tirsia organization in North America. The Pekiti Tirsia curriculum that he organized and developed with GT Gaje at the time was approved by GT Gaje. Criticisms that he "tends to make things more complicated, rather than aggressively simplifying" come from the same camp that I mentioned above.

At issue is whether you understand a curriculum in terms of "techniques" or "foundation." Pekiti is in essence, to borrow terms used above, very "aggressive" and very "simple." You need an excellent foundation to be able to pull that off, and I think that most First Generations students of GT Gaje would be surprised or at least amused to hear comments to the effect that Tuhon McGrath doesn't teach (or understand) the "real" Pekiti Tirsia.

Best,

Steve Lamade