Qi, Chi, Ki, Whatever

**Justme** · Posted On: 12/29/2002 6:35pm

I hadn't heard about Gigong and immortality. As I mentioned, alot of my info is based upon Erle Montaigue. He says it has many of the properties of electrical energy. I tend to agree with this.
Final to your questions:

1. Practice and variations in chi - From what I have read there is only one Chi. Internal arts practice just has excercises that help cultivate it.
2. I think other animals have chi just like we do.
3. The phenomenon is produced through a relaxed, connected movement. Tension I have read chokes the flow of energy off. Stifles it. This relaxed connected movement I believe is the idea of "sung". Thats how Erle explains it, and I have e-mailed him on this several times.

The idea of your own experience was not meant as any kind of insult. Its just that to help understand it clearly you need to try the excercises to experience it yourself. I don't have enough knowledge to explain it well enough. You are in California. I am in Ohio. I would think you probably have access to some really well schooled people where you are. If you found one, they could show you what I am unable to explain better. Also, I didn't mean to say YOU have attacked anything. I apology if that is the way it came across. I had Kato the one time all upset because I talked about Yang LuChan who died in 1872. How could something so long ago be relevant. Well, just because it was so long ago doesn't mean it isn't. Here was a man who used this stuff for real. We, I have read, was very successful How was this so. What did he do. I would imagine even Chen Xiao Wang the current keeper of Chen Tai Chi doesn't have the frequent confrontation Yang LuChan had. So how did Yang win? It would be nice to get some concrete information about him and his techniques.

Edited by - justme on December 29 2002 18:37:02

**The Wastrel** · Posted On: 12/29/2002 6:53pm

Justme,
On practice and variation in qi, the claims that qi is low level electricity and that it can be cultivated by Taiji practice would seem to lead to a conclusion that a very successful practitioner of Qi will have a lot of it. That was what I meant by variations in qi. Variations in level, not magnitude. You need to understand this because it's very important. When you do, you'll understand my point. THE PHENOMENON OF KINETIC POWER AND THE EXPLANATION OF QI ARE DIFFERENT! Even some Taiji practitioners will tell you that you are confused. If someone who practices Taiji hits something and it flys fifty feet, that DOES NOT mean that qi exists. Qi is the explanation for how that kinetic power manifests itself, and it is incorrect. At my Chinese martial arts school we had someone who taught Yang Form Taiji, and I think it is an excellent way to get people in touch with correct biomechanics. But here's a shocker...the teacher did not believe in Qi.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

**Justme** · Posted On: 12/29/2002 7:53pm

Not shocked maybe that is what it is. Just better biomechanics. I think, though, in dealing with Erle, it can be demonstrated that skilled practictioners could generate more chi then unskilled. There is a guy named Gary Romel. He has a website, and has trained directly with Erle. I have not. He lists his phone number. He is in Oklahoma City in the Air Force. I have talked with him on the phone. He is very knowledgeable and could explain more. Not putting you off, but I just don't know. I am to knew at the whole thing myself.

**MartialArtist** · Posted On: 12/29/2002 8:02pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:

"Energy" is probably the most abused term in all eastern disciplines; it can mean anything they want it to mean, since it's all new-age Yuri Geller stuff in the genre of crystals and spoon-bending.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote>
Energy cannot be measured. Calories can be measured, so can force, but just energy as in what we're talking about cannot be measured.

Ever hear of someone who was able to lift a car when they couldn't pick up a 150 pound dumbell? That can be considered as chi.

Body mechanisms. Yeah, the technique allows you so the person can't use his energy against you. In wrestling, if you control the hips while the person is down, the things he can do are very limited. You disrupt his "process" or movement.

**The Wastrel** · Posted On: 12/29/2002 8:03pm

Why don't you just say kinetics? BTW, I saw that Romel's website. Looks like utter nonsense.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

**MartialArtist** · Posted On: 12/29/2002 8:04pm

Chi is more mental than physical.

Have you ever concentrated on your technique and your power went up a bit?

With breaking, it is crucial. If you hesitate, or your mind goes off somewhere else and you lose focus, you break your hand.

**The Wastrel** · Posted On: 12/29/2002 8:13pm

Omigod...

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

**Boyd** · Posted On: 12/29/2002 8:18pm

So wait, that means I can summon Chi on command? Like in Dragonball Z? HALLOWICKED!

**Justme** · Posted On: 12/29/2002 8:50pm

Wastrel - On Romel being nonsense, could be. I talked with him via the phone and he seemed very down to earth and made alot of sense to me.

Boyd - Not Dragan ball z. Just an interesting topic. Atleast to me.

Some talked about has chi ever been measured. There was a Discovery Channel special that showed some scienctists that supposedly measured it. I taped the special just have to find the tape to get the name. And I am not saying what was presented was factual.

One thing I do know. When I finish one of my Tai Chi workouts, I feel great. It gives me good excercise, and makes my legs feel like they went through a good workout. I also feel very relaxed and, being 48, my joints feel great.

Edited by - justme on December 29 2002 20:57:09

**Freddy** · Posted On: 12/29/2002 9:09pm

No one knows for sure if chi exists or not. So far there hasnt been any instruments that can measure it. But to be fair if you look at the historic discovery of radio waves and x-ray; know one had a means to measure it it until the last 10 years or so nor knew of its existence till the modern era. The universe is still as mysterious as ever. Scientists are still discovering the world of quantum physics. Physical laws as we know it at that level doesnt apply. Who knows for sure if chi exist or not???

PEACE!