shotokan and Tae Kwon Do

**TheSag3** · Posted On: 11/23/2004 5:13pm

agree with that, but dont say the arts themselves have sprang into BS, but BS arts have sprang from them, i think thats what u meant.

**TheSag3** · Posted On: 11/23/2004 5:34pm

Originally Posted by miguksaram

Which kwan did he come from? When you say he is first generation, do you mean he studied directly under one of the founders? Where is GM Kang's hometown?

http://www.kidohae.com/misc.htm

i found that online and it actually matches what my Sabumnim has told me so i thought it to be pretty accurate, if u go down the timeline to 1974 ull see the name KANG, IK JO and what im talking about. is the site legit?

**TheSag3** · Posted On: 11/23/2004 5:39pm

hey miguksaram, i found this too on kangs webpage.... the kinda credentials u cant fake either... check this out...

http://www.kangmartialarts.com/GMK_KangBiography.htm

**Miguksaram** · Posted On: 11/24/2004 8:29am

Originally Posted by EternalRage

I'd just like to point out that most of the old traditional systems that have a long history have turned into BS arts where theyre teaching things that arent necessarily "wrong".... just utterly stupid.

No the traditional arts have not changed. It is the BS instructors that have thrown crap out there and then claims that it is tradtional. Not all TMA's are like this, there are still good TMA (yes even good TKD schools) out there that do not bullshit about who they are and where they come from.

**Miguksaram** · Posted On: 11/24/2004 8:33am

Originally Posted by EternalRage

Reality check: TKD is not 2000 yrs old, it sucks on the street, and because of the Korean government, most of the old styles of Korean schools have been lost.

Don't tell me **** about those stupid statues on some old Korean caves and how they link to present day TKD. Present day TKD doesnt even link to TKD from 30 years ago. And don't tell me that **** about the fighting is all on the individual - TKD sucks for fighting plain and simple.

If you get your jollies from putting on a piece of foamcore plastic around your chest and bouncing around with your hands down like a giant penis then good for you.

Oooo...someone is going for the Captain Obvious Award today. :5butthead :new_Llol:

**Miguksaram** · Posted On: 11/24/2004 8:41am

Originally Posted by TheSag3

http://www.kidohae.com/misc.htm

i found that online and it actually matches what my Sabumnim has told me so i thought it to be pretty accurate, if u go down the timeline to 1974 ull see the name KANG, IK JO and what im talking about. is the site legit?

The site's timeline seems to be in order. However, just to let you know, your GM is not 1st generation. He is most likely 3rd to 4th generation student, possibly 5th. Your kwan is Jidokwan and checked on the records and didn't find him in the 1st generation students. Please don't take that as his teachings are no good, it just points out his place in the grand scheme of things. You should ask him if he is from Seoul or Chunju. Chunju was pretty much a main area for the development of the Jidokwan school. A lot of good fighters came from the Jidokwan.

**Miguksaram** · Posted On: 11/24/2004 8:47am

Originally Posted by TheSag3

hey miguksaram, i found this too on kangs webpage.... the kinda credentials u cant fake either... check this out...

http://www.kangmartialarts.com/GMK_KangBiography.htm

FYI...not that I am going to make a fuss about this, but you can, and people have, faked such creditentials. Not saying that GM Kang has, I'm just saying that you need more proof than just some words in Bio.

**TheSag3** · Posted On: 11/24/2004 3:18pm

Originally Posted by miguksaram

FYI...not that I am going to make a fuss about this, but you can, and people have, faked such creditentials. Not saying that GM Kang has, I'm just saying that you need more proof than just some words in Bio.

very true, i agree with u. i think itd be hard to keep a rep up tho, claiming things like that, but ur right i guess it has been done. thanks for looking into this stuff for me bro. *bow* :)

thanks for that info too, i had never heard the term jidokwan, where do u look this stuff up?

**fanatical** · Posted On: 11/25/2004 4:36am

Originally Posted by EternalRage

Uh there is a difference there. When looking from a purely fighting perspective, Gracie Jiujisu is a modification yes, but it is an improvement. TKD is not an improvement. TKD is a bastardization of all the unique martial arts of Korea that blossomed after the liberation from Japanese rule. They brainwash their students to thinking that what they do is efficient on the street and they brainwash their students to think TKD is the ultimate of all Korean martial arts.

Reality check: TKD is not 2000 yrs old, it sucks on the street, and because of the Korean government, most of the old styles of Korean schools have been lost.

Don't tell me **** about those stupid statues on some old Korean caves and how they link to present day TKD. Present day TKD doesnt even link to TKD from 30 years ago. And don't tell me that **** about the fighting is all on the individual - TKD sucks for fighting plain and simple.

If you get your jollies from putting on a piece of foamcore plastic around your chest and bouncing around with your hands down like a giant penis then good for you.

Are you referring to my post? I totally agreed it came from shotokan. TKD is not all WTF. ITF traces it's TKD to Choi and his breaking off from the kwans back in the 50's. Choi admitted his TKD was mostly shotokan with other small influences. Choi tried his best to among other things add a more proper sparring system instead of the rigid one punch one kill sparring of shotokan at the time, which he felt was unrealistic. How about them apples? Now it can be discussed exactly how successful he was ^^ But at least he tried.

ITF TKD is not a major improvement from shotokan. It's simply different. But how the hell can you say Gracie jiujitsu is so fucking superior to judo? At the time Helio Gracie started teaching his system. Judo was a great deal closer to BJJ and I think most people know of the allmighty s00perpowerful battle between Kimura and Gracie. They call the ude garami "Kimura" for christ sake. If anything Gracie Jiujitsu was also "different" but Judo may have suffered under the extreme sportification of the later years to make you think BJJ is inherently superior to it. Maybe. I can't really read your mind.

The brainwashing is bunch of crap though. It's a natural reaction when people with "normal" intelligence get involved in any sport or activity without proper reason. Dorky TKDist run around proclaiming their rotten history and superiority claims like a football fan would shout how his team is the best. This is because TKD's popularity has boomed with it's "fun for the whole family" policy over in the US and other places it seems. By all means I'm not saying that's wrong. But I feel there's a problem when it gets so far so you can't train TKD properly anymore because everyone is just in it for looks.

I feel like I'm ranting stuff that won't really make for a good discussion, because it seems you've made up your mind that "TKD IS TEH SUX0R" and "BJJ R0XX". I just felt I had to reply since you seemed to be putting words into my mouth, given that it was my post you quoted.

**Blitzkrieg** · Posted On: 11/28/2004 12:38pm

Originally Posted by EternalRage

If you get your jollies from putting on a piece of foamcore plastic around your chest and bouncing around with your hands down like a giant penis then good for you.

New addition to sig, thank you