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  1. Mediocrates is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2004 10:54am


     Style: Fabio Santos BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You should be skeptical of supplements. 99% of them are pure marketing hype.

    One must realize the value of SAFE supplements in a fitness program: they amount to about 5% of your potential. The other 95% is sound training, nutrition, and rest. I know of VERY few people who have their 95% well actualized, which is why some supplements SEEM to bring amazing results. It's not that a given supplement is so great - it's the training/diet that is so poor. This is where people fail to be honest with themselves about their exercise/nutrition knowledge and application. Do you really understand and analyze what you are doing, or do you follow advice because it fits your preconceived notions? Can you adequately explain to others WHY you eat/train the way you do?

    The only supplement you really need is critical thinking.
  2. Chupacabra is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/05/2004 11:17am

    supporting member
     Style: 5AF & Sub Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Mediocrates

    The only supplement you really need is critical thinking.
    either that or steriods
  3. PizDoff is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2004 11:20am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Can I get that at GNC?


    Edit: I meant critical thinking, but then some ASS had to post in front of me...
    Last edited by PizDoff; 8/05/2004 11:34am at .
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  4. Chupacabra is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/05/2004 11:23am

    supporting member
     Style: 5AF & Sub Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm sure you can if you ask the right people
  5. Equipoise is offline
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    Certified Fitness Trainer

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2004 12:44pm

    supporting member
     Style: Chemical Assistance

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You can get the No2 Hemodiolator name brand at GNC, it's gonna be around 70$ US. Like I said transport systems are just bs, but if you wanna get the name brand, lemme know how it goes.

    Te(V)plar -
    I don't agree with your professor temp, by that logic, everything we eat we couldn't metabolize, Also we absorb the nutrients from the things we eat in or intestines, correct? The arginine within the stuff is supposed to be metabolized like a time released vitamin. I'm just wondering if actually taking Arginine itself would be more beneficial, and if the Arginine Keto Gluterate is just jargon.

    Mediocrates-
    Also alot of supplements do work. There's a really limited amt of supplements if you think about it, there are pro-hormones, (lukewarm steroids), proteins, vitamins and creatine. Creatine itself exists naturally in your body and has a high content within red meat. However red meat takes longer to break down and digest, so most people who are body builders stick to chicken, tuna, etc.. Creatine just increases the amount of water that your muscles can hold, it's a cell volumizer and as I'm sure I stated earlier somewhere it helps the lifter achieve Hypertrophy,
  6. Solid is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/05/2004 12:52pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing Judo MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The physiology of NO "supplementation" makes no sense. It is possible to influence both output and degradation of NO with oral products (as someone said, this is what Viagra does). However, taking a supplement like this won't cause specific vasodilation just in your muscle, it will cause it, to varying degrees in all vascular beds. If you were able to take a supplement that caused skeletal muscle vasodilation (skeletal muscle is the type of muscle in your biceps, etc - what we think of when we talk about weight training), you would have already vasodilated most other vascular beds. The end result? Significantly decreased resistance in your arterial vascular system and hypotension - i.e. low blood pressure - you'd be dizzy, sweaty, and definately not ready to lift weights, or do anything but faint.

    I've never tried these products, but the physiology doesn't make sense.
    Last edited by Solid; 8/05/2004 12:56pm at .
  7. Mediocrates is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2004 1:03pm


     Style: Fabio Santos BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also alot of supplements do work.
    I never said they didn't. The question is to what degree (typically very little) and at what cost (typically very high).

    There's a really limited amt of supplements if you think about it, there are pro-hormones, (lukewarm steroids), proteins, vitamins and creatine.
    Sure, you can put most supplements into a few broad categories. That doesn't really change the point, it just shuffles the language.

    Creatine just increases the amount of water that your muscles can hold, it's a cell volumizer and as I'm sure I stated earlier somewhere it helps the lifter achieve Hypertrophy
    Creatine supplementation causes increased water stores as a side effect and has no direct effect on muscular growth. The logic behind creatine supplementation takes a few leaps of MAY:

    1. Creatine Phosphate is the first source for ATP regeneration - it provides a spare phosphate group to metabolized ATP (which is ADP, diphosphate instead of triphosphate).

    2. Creatine supplementation MAY increase CrP stores. The human body normally has about 5-10 seconds of CrP stores from which to draw. Supplementation MAY bring that level up to 20-30 seconds (experience does vary from person to person).

    3. Additional CrP stores MAY allow a person to perform repetitions in greater number AND/OR against greater resistance.

    4. Greater number/resistance in repetition MAY better promote hypertrophy.


    A lot of supplementation is based on a series of facts that are not guarantees, but rather possibilities. This still means fuckall if the training program and/or dietary approach are notably flawed.
  8. Equipoise is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/05/2004 1:23pm

    supporting member
     Style: Chemical Assistance

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah the diet overall is the most important, as is proper lifting etc. I've been using creatine for over a year, it works great for me, I use it in 5 week cycles, 5 on, 3 off, etc. etc.
  9. CrimsonTiger is offline
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    RAAAAAAR! Fear the Tiger!

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2004 8:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: Karate/Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    PD,

    Apparently the Canadian one doesn't have the same transport system as the American one...something about the argenine-whatever not being approved here. My buddy had me buy the U.S. version.
    Regards,
    CrimsonTiger

    "Na'h, they should go to old school rules.
    One guy gets sword and sheild, the other gets a net and a trident.
    Lions eat christians between rounds." - Strong Machine
  10. Te(V)plar is offline

    Stallowned!

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    Posted On:
    8/09/2004 4:04am


     Style: BJJ/MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Solid
    The physiology of NO "supplementation" makes no sense. It is possible to influence both output and degradation of NO with oral products (as someone said, this is what Viagra does). However, taking a supplement like this won't cause specific vasodilation just in your muscle, it will cause it, to varying degrees in all vascular beds. If you were able to take a supplement that caused skeletal muscle vasodilation (skeletal muscle is the type of muscle in your biceps, etc - what we think of when we talk about weight training), you would have already vasodilated most other vascular beds. The end result? Significantly decreased resistance in your arterial vascular system and hypotension - i.e. low blood pressure - you'd be dizzy, sweaty, and definately not ready to lift weights, or do anything but faint.

    I've never tried these products, but the physiology doesn't make sense.
    You make good arguments. Although I'd argue that NO supplements don't even deliver their payloads. The NO will degrade in your GI tract and not cause basodilation.
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