My Rant - Why so many "martial artists" lose

**CrimsonTiger** · Posted On: 1/02/2003 9:57am

Cyberstalker,

Sadly I'm seeing something very similar happen in my dojo...and I haven't even been there that long. I think there's a natural tendency of seniors to view the juniors as "softer" in their tests...but even allowing for that, I'm seeing people SKIP RANKS simply because they have "nice technique", or "good katas"!! Usually these people are from some other style that does techniques VERY different from us...so yes their technique is nice, but it's not OUR TECHNIQUE. If I'm a blackbelt in karate, does that mean I get to skip ranks in Jujutsu?

My national shodan grading took about 6 hours (I could drive myself home, but was warned to have someone standing by...being a Karate man, I could still walk. ;P) and I took a particular beating because of my size and fitness level. (I was the biggest guy in the grading.) I watched some of my counterparts totally gas less than 2 hours into the grading, and they STILL passed "on probation, to be retested in their home dojo". Do you wanna know what that means? That means their home dojo's Sensei is going to go "Here, spar a bit. Now do some kata. Ok, good, you're off probation." *rolls eyes*

The best advice was given by Bolverk...don't worry about any others anymore. The kyu belts can SEE when someone is wearing a blackbelt versus someone who IS a blackbelt. They see us hit the bag, they see us working out, they see us training our kata or our combos or simply stretching OUTSIDE of class hours...while our McColleagues simply stand at the side of the class and shout orders. *shrug*

With all due respect to asian cultures, martial arts have grown beyond the culturally imposed structure of before. Personally I find intelligence and determination ("spirit") are the two major factors in a student. The rest can be trained. Unfortunately, most dojos are still cookie-cutter in their approach, which is really unfortunate.

Regards,
CrimsonTiger

"You sure talk a lot. Are you going to train at all tonight, or just stand there the whole time?" -Sempai Dale

9chambers · Posted On: 1/02/2003 5:05pm

I honestly don't think anyone has the stats to prove that martial artists get beat up more than Taxi drivers or dentists.

In every fight someone wins and someone loses. If you are talking about life on the schoolyard then I think everyone just notices it when a guy who is a black belt gets his ass kicked. Nobody cares when its a tennis player.

If you mean as opposed to wrestlers and boxers, well..

First off, how many boxers did you go to high school with? Two? Odds are if they weren't really good at it then you didn't hear that they were boxers. Nobody goes around school bragging that they suck at boxing.

This may surprise you but some people suck at boxing just as bad as other guys suck at martial arts. Also, just as many parents think boxing will toughen up their geeky kids (or football or whatever) as parents who force their kid into martial arts.

Second, wrestlers are athletes. Its a sport. The kids who suck at it quit or they are cut from the team. Nobody gets cut from the dojo.

It isn't most martial artists that suck at fighting. Its most people in general. Most people in general suck at basketball too. Don't blame basketball.

&gt;&gt; Perhaps it was because I had an inherent skill for the science and never deviated from natural principles. - Miyamoto Musashi 1643

**Kato** · Posted On: 1/02/2003 5:58pm

Isn't this a central McDojo issue? While we sit here with high blood pressure ranting about systems its the dilution effect of the participants that has caused the (most)damage. I remember this being discussed elsewhere on the forum, but the dojo is only as good as the people who sign up and the demographic of people you have in class. Boxing attracts a certain clientele which for various reasons TENDS to be younger, fitter, tougher and more aggressive than the subsection of the population attracted to Tai Chi. The people I meet in WC ( people with hair generally ) are very different to the people I train with in kickboxing ( generally no hair, lots of tattoos ...)...I know who would generally come out top in a rumble, not because I think either art is particularly superior, but because of the type of person they are.

**Tart-Do** · Posted On: 1/02/2003 7:23pm

Dudes,

Lets not forget about the sheer will + heart + realsitic training.

Mr. Sev.

One of my boys said you were hanging with my former teacher TF out in the Cheese State. Mr. F is a good dude and a real one at that.

**strats36** · Posted On: 1/03/2003 11:34am

What a relief it is to read a thoughtful and mature post!

Perhaps the reason it seems that we are always hearing about martial artists getting beaten up is that some people, on this forum in particular, take pleasure in reading about those incidents.
There are whole threads dedicated to the subject.

A problem with some training is that you can fall into the "If he does this, then I'll do that" trap. That involves some type of thought process that you aren't going to have time for in a real fight. If someone attacks in and unexpected and sudden way, then you'll probably freeze up while your brain tries to think of the proper way to react.

**patfromlogan** · Posted On: 1/03/2003 12:42pm

Good thread-i'm glad i was busy with yelling at punks for awhile, so i just read the whole thing.

Even in the kinda soft eclectic semimcdojo at the gym here, i see some good techniques and realistic fighting. Like when one guy was getting ready to test for brown and one of the senior bb who comes by occasionally sparred the testee. The senior bb blitzed the guy, tore into him with strikes and takedowns and in general blew the guy away. He told me later that he wanted the guy to see what it was like at "the higher levels." I think the testee got the idea then that there are people who have passed a test and wear a black belt and other who are black belts.

I like most of your points, Cyber S., but i also question how many ma's actually lose fights. Other than a brick in the back of the head. (speaking of such, there was a brown belt in my school with a bit of an ego problem that took it upon himself to beat up and throw out an obnoxious drunk at a party. So the drunk went and snuck in the back door and slammed a bottle across the brown belts head. Concussion and lots of stiches and sensei was ashamed to hear about it) As a colored belt i was told that in a fight it would be in slow motion, compared to sparring. In the few fights i've had, this wasn't true, but what did happen was automatic response with out any conscious thought. I think that this occurs with most ma's in decent schools at some point after training long enough.

Always walk on a bright, wide road. If you choose to live with your right posture, you don't have to go on a dark road or a malodorous place. Oyama

**The Wastrel** · Posted On: 1/04/2003 10:28pm

Damn, I had a bottle smashed over my head. I got up and kicked ass, guess I was lucky!
I think the fallacy here is like the one related to coincidence. You don't notice the 10,000 other times that things happen normally, but when they don't you notice it and think it's significant.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**