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  1. m4949 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/21/2004 8:58am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Kuk sool won History

    I recently got in a discusssion regarding Korean Martial arts History, agian.

    I finally get all these people to realize that all modern Korean MA are decended from Japan.

    This one guys then goes on about KuK Sool won, being the oldest MA.

    So I started my research at the main web site. And to be honest I have hard time believing some of the cliams made...

    http://www.kuksoolwon.com/main.html

    It sounds just like every other claim by TKD of how they made it based on the ancient styles yadda yadda yadda.

    If I am wong and KSW truley is a Korean only art, I'd like to know. If I am right, I'd like to know if there are any good resources I can use in my argument.

    Finally, Why do KSW schools look like cults?
  2. Matt Bernius is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/21/2004 9:55am

    supporting member
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The best I can immediately provide is here. It's pretty well written and sums up all of the legitmate research that I've found about the Korean Arts.

    http://cclib.nsu.ru/projects/satbi/s...tart/muye.html

    The final answer is that no one can certify any true lineage. Secret teachings can't count if there isn't evidence to back them up.

    - Matt
    Student of Wan Yi Chuan Kung Fu,
    Kali, & what ever works
    Renaissance Martial Arts
    Rochester, NY
  3. LLL is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/21/2004 4:48pm

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     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wasn't the modern Kuk Sool Won founded like 10 years ago anyway? Who cares if there was some style with the same name 18237years ago; the modern one is probably TKD+HApkido like all Korean MAs...
  4. jkdbuck76 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/22/2004 10:30pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: jkd concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was in kuk sool won for years. white thru black looks like hapkido and hwarangdo. black belt on up looks like chinese stuff (animals, weapons, etc). Go to www.hwarang.org to see some info on kuksool/hapkido/hwarangdo. My research on the web relveals to me that although lots of koreans were learning TKD, TSD, and Hwrang Do--lot's of people learned some specialized techniques (Duggan reports that Joo Bang Lee sought out Suh Inhyuk for open-palm striking techniques).

    Koreans, especially kuksool grandmaster Suh, are very nationalistic and somewhat anti-Japanese. One of my kuksool classmates got chastised once for his kiai/kiop sounding too much like "Ha-SAH!"--which sounded "too Japanese". What I don't like is how people learned from Young Sool Choi (founder of hapkido I guess), then downplay his influence. And in my mind, this is because he taught a JAPANESE art. None of the Koreans would admit strong foreign influences.
    SEANBABY:
    "The seventh law of thermodynamics is that every time a fat person gets near a trapdoor, they fall in. Itís the closest thing we have to scientific proof of God."
  5. jkdbuck76 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/22/2004 10:35pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: jkd concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In a korean folklore class I took in college, the prof told us how after WWII and the Japanese occupation, the korean gov't started cultural art preservation programs. Masters of Korean National arts (like painting, pansori, music, native martial arts) could get recognized as a "kuksa nim"--national art teacher. You get a gov't pension. You have to demonstrate your knowledge once or twice a year publicly.

    Back to downplay: it's like these Korean guys downplay their training with Choi, then state that they learned everything else they know from some "monk on the mountain." If this were true, why do kuksool, hapkido, and hwarangdo look alike? And it don't have anything to do with any monks living on the mountains! Kuk Sool Won was founded in 1958.
    SEANBABY:
    "The seventh law of thermodynamics is that every time a fat person gets near a trapdoor, they fall in. Itís the closest thing we have to scientific proof of God."
  6. jkdbuck76 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/22/2004 10:39pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: jkd concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kuksool schools look like cults because they share many attributes with cults.

    1) undying loyalty to the WKSA and the Grandmaster.
    2) you are NOT allowed to study other styles.
    3) The head instructor of any given school acts as high priest to an infallible source of knowledge.
    4) Endless ritual--designed to replace thinking and keep people from questioning the validity and truthfulness of what they're doing.
    5) Everyone is trying to kiss the Grandmaster's butt and he can't be questioned. Those who do question him too much leave kuksool--like Grandmaster's brother InSunSeo and countless other arts.
    SEANBABY:
    "The seventh law of thermodynamics is that every time a fat person gets near a trapdoor, they fall in. Itís the closest thing we have to scientific proof of God."
  7. jkdbuck76 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/22/2004 10:46pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: jkd concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just watch kuksool..... The Chinese and Japanese influence can't be denied. They all pretty much fight like TKD people. Maybe you should read up on or talk to Dr. He-Young Kimm, founder of Hanmudo. He was a TKD, yusool, HKD, kuksool guy. He also does kumdo--Japanese kendo repackaged for Korean consumption.
    Read up on hwarangdo.com and hwarangdo.org

    WHy I left kuksool--it was too schlocky, too static, and way too ritualistic and not very effective in its training methods. I honestly think I have some explaining to do to God as to why I got on my hands and knees and bowed to flags, the association, and to another man--namely the kuksool Grandmaster. Watch them "bow in". They do it on hands and knees. And when the Grandmaster isn't around, you bow to his picture. I think God will take me behind the wood shed some day for that.
    SEANBABY:
    "The seventh law of thermodynamics is that every time a fat person gets near a trapdoor, they fall in. Itís the closest thing we have to scientific proof of God."
  8. m4949 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2004 7:25am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    JKDbuck,
    Thanks for your insite.
    Don't worry about the bowing thing. In Korea it is traditional to kneel an bow to elders as a formal greeting.

    The Bowing to pictures is kinda weird though.
  9. jkdbuck76 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/23/2004 8:11am

    Join us... or die
     Style: jkd concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, it is. It's like saying "I'M the MOFO and you're gonna' know it!" I refuse to grovel and scrape.
    There are plenty of clowns in kuksool (as with any other belt factory) that walk around with their chests puffed out, strutting around like they're the baddest thing since....Conan the Barbarian. I've never seen any one of them throw down! I even heard one instructor who told me that "sparring has so little to do with combat".

    Says I, "So what do you do?"
    Says he, "we have one side play the attacker role and the other side defends with their techniques".
    The techniques taught in kuksool are static jointlocks. I feel sorry for the poor saps in kuksool who think they are learning fighting skills.

    Sure, sparring can have little to do with "combat" if you're playing tag. But I for one believe that you need to glove up and go all out with someone at the dojahng before you're forced to on the street. In other words, don't let a streetfight be the first time you really hit hard enough to knock someone's block off.
    SEANBABY:
    "The seventh law of thermodynamics is that every time a fat person gets near a trapdoor, they fall in. Itís the closest thing we have to scientific proof of God."
  10. blankslate is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2004 8:24am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    bunch of kooks...


    I heard they have some good sword action...
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