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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/04/2005 1:15am

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Roy7
    Yeah but in that case most people can avoid fights all together. RSBD is supposed to teach people to defend themselves practically from all sorts of conflicts no?

    MMA is great for sports, but its not as applicable to streetfights simply because its designed for competitions. Not handling a deranged lunatic with a fork on pcp.

    And either way - even if most people go their entire lives going w/out a fight that involved a knife that's awsome. But it only takes one time for you to walk down that wrong alley and die right?

    Besides - I've never seen a one on one barfight. There's all sorts of crazy stuff going on. Chairs, bottles, 4 friends on one guy. MMA isnt oriented towards handling that. Seems like RSBD is.

    Dont get me wrong . MMA guys are awsome fighters. But if they're trained to fight in an octagon wouldnt they miss certain things that people that train specifically for a street fight do?

    Thats just what I think.

    Good points except for two. I'm in a striking art and I'm so sick of the bar fight crap. Every striking art uses this as an excuse. Most fights have broken out in the middle of a street. Or on school grounds. Or a bouncer knocking the crap out of someone. Most bar fights I have seen entail three people the two people fighting and the bouncer(S) heading their way. The whole bar routine turning into this huge melee is crap does it happen yes. The funny thing is you would have to have some shitty friends that would leave you hanging in a bar fight.

    Boxing is a sport designed with a set of rules even harder to follow than MMA. How many boxers have you heard of getting their asses kicked in the street. I've met MMA students. Many of which train for the street fights. Then they practice 6-8 weeks before their fights to make sure they follow the rules.
  2. Jostein is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/04/2005 4:43am


     Style: BJJ and WT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Knightmare
    I heard Brian Johnston and Don Frye got in a barfight with about 6 arabs and beat the **** ouf them.

    Never heard that.Where did you read it?
  3. Roy7 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/04/2005 8:22am


     Style: MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    wait, I agree with you guys that bar fights dont happen often. And even that most fights are short 1 on 1 altercations (although that's only in the US, and I'm sure is specific for region to region).

    But my main argument is that it only takes 1 time for there to be a knife situation and you'd die.

    About the guys beating 6 arabs - great. I didnt say they couldnt fight, but I dont think they'd ever practice multiple attacker situations in their dojo. Whereas if you took a UFC guy, put him in a good RSBD gym, and taught him to apply his already killer arsenal towards strictly fighting in the streets he'd be much better off.

    Now, you said that gyms dont realisitically train. I know some schools are really intense in their situations - but yeah, you can never accurately recreate the street. But you can recreate a robber going for his gun.

    I'm just arguing for the concept of RSBD. It just seems to make more sense - its like taking a pickup truck and say it's perfect for a family car. Yeah it'll do the job (the pickup), but the Camry down the street would be better because it's designed for the job.

    Now a MMA gym that trains guys for street fights - that's awsome! Because I commute in a pretty shady area from day to day, and in each fight I've seen if the fight goes to the ground someone else is gonna jump in and start kicking from outside. I'd always think think that if I got involved I'd get my ass handed to me just beacuse while going torquing that jap arm bar I'd get my face smashed.

    That's just my take on it. Thanks for not flamming me though. Usually whenever I tell people this at my gym people freak out when they hear the acronym RSBD.
  4. Knightmare is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/04/2005 4:35pm


     Style: Kickboxing/Sub. Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jostein
    Never heard that.Where did you read it?
    Sherdog.
  5. Matt W. is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/04/2005 8:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh my goodness! I don't know if we're being trolled, but I'll bite.

    Yeah but in that case most people can avoid fights all together.
    True. Which is why the whole RBSD concept of learning how not to fight is such complete and utter bullshit. Who the hell needs to pay someone to teach them to not fight? It's completely absurd.

    MMA is great for sports, but its not as applicable to streetfights simply because its designed for competitions.
    What is it about punching, kicking, wrestling, chokes and locks that you find is not good for street fighting? How does the fact that you can use those techniques in competition nake them useless on the street?

    Not handling a deranged lunatic with a fork on pcp.
    Please explain what an RBSD exponent could do in that situation that a MMA fighter could not and why. Be specific.

    MMA isnt oriented towards handling that. Seems like RSBD is.
    Please give some specific examples of what RBSD training does to address that situation, and then explain why it works, and why it works better than the training in fighting fundementals that one gets in MMA.

    Dont get me wrong . MMA guys are awsome fighters.
    Nice "out" for when an MMA guy challenges you.

    But if they're trained to fight in an octagon wouldnt they miss certain things that people that train specifically for a street fight do?
    No. Especially because you can't train for a "street fight" because there's NO SUCH THING. Every fight on the street is different, under different circumstances. The best thing you can do is train fighting fundementals... Movement, timing, distance, hitting power, grappling and groundfighting. And that is what MMA fighters do.

    Thats just what I think.
    I recommend changing what you think. Because right now you're way off!
  6. Roy7 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/04/2005 9:34pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow, first off - I guess all trolls would say this. But I really didnt want to start any trouble - I'm not even arguing against MMA. ITs like, that last poster really sounded pissed. And I dont think I said anything unreasonable.

    Seems like the people are pretty set on MMA be applicable to everything... But it just doesnt make much sense to me. A guy studying knife fighting is gonna be a better knife fighter than an MMA guy (because the MMA guy has never studied knife fighting). A good RSBD school would at least address knife encounters right? I'm sure some do.

    Like one example I can take right of the top of my head. I went to do a single leg takedown on pavement because the guy just was better boxer than I was. Yeah I took him down, but I had hairline fracture on my knee in the process. Now my gym never addressed that. So I ask my roomate (the RSBD nut) 'bout it, and he goes on to tell me how lucky I was not to have a more serious injury on my knee from the takedown - and how he would have done somethign else for that street situation like a catch spiral takedown.

    Maybe I go to a bad MMA gym, but we've NEVER talked about doing take downs on different environments.

    You mentioned the screwdriver example. Like, I read Franco's 1001, and he said one thing that really made a lot of sense - he said always assume that the guy has a weapon. That way you're looking out for it. And if that lunatic with a fork goes to stab, you "v grip" that fork, hold on for dear life, and try to hit his head with your head as much as possible.

    I'm not saying that MMA isnt good. I train no Gi BJJ/MMA, and will hopefully be competing beyond submission soon (so dont go off on the whole "good excuse if an MMA guy challenges you" - that's just low!).

    I'm just saying that RSBD addressses the worst case situation (knives, guns, drugs, police, etc). Whereas at least my gym never once told me what to do if a mugger pulls a knife on me.

    Now someone mentioned RSBD gyms not beign able to train realistically. I agree - theres tons of bullshit RSBD schools out there - but you cant write of ALL RSBD on account of a few bad apples.

    And you said you cant train for a street fight - I agree - but you can at least think about subtle changes that would be important. Fundamentals have to be there, but why cant you just change it a little to try and address worst-case situations?

    Because even though most people go their entire lives without ever getting into a fight. Some innocent people get stabbed, raped, and beat up despite taking necessary precautions.

    So on a closing note - it just doesnt make sense. You cant say that MMA the "end all" when it comes addressing all real life encounters becasue its not meant to. I'm sure some RSBD just takes all MMA concepts and training methodologies and makes a few subtle changes for fighing a guy in an alley.

    Whew, didnt mean to offend you man. I know some people feel strongly 'bout this so I'll just drop it here. You're right in whatever responses you give because I dont think anything I'd say would make any difference anyway.

    Sorry for the long post.
  7. Knightmare is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/04/2005 10:09pm


     Style: Kickboxing/Sub. Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Someone needs to tell Kimbo that Sammy is a white supremacist.
  8. Matt W. is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/04/2005 10:40pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not even arguing against MMA.
    Yes, you are. Don't try to backpeddle. You clearly stated that MMA is not applicable to the street because it is for competition.

    Seems like the people are pretty set on MMA be applicable to everything...
    For unarmed combat? Yes, it is. For armed combat? There's still far better things than RBSD.

    A good RSBD school would at least address knife encounters right?
    First, there is no such thing as a good RBSD school. RBSD is, on its own principles, bullshit. Second, what the hell are they going to teach you that will allow you to go unarmed versus knife (which is what I assume you're referring to)?

    Like one example I can take right of the top of my head. I went to do a single leg takedown on pavement...
    Oh, I see. You ARE a troll. Nevermind then.
  9. Roy7 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/04/2005 10:57pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Knightmare
    Someone needs to tell Kimbo that Sammy is a white supremacist.

    I didnt notice that on his website. Could ya give me a link if you could? If so I'd pass on his buying his material (bein brown myself) - but doesnt seem like it from his pictures (I think there's a few latino/indian/brown guys in those).
  10. Roy7 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/04/2005 11:48pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    First off - when did I say, as you so wonderfully put, that "MMA is NOT applicable to street combat"?

    If anything my words "not as applicable" might be what you're thinking about. But of course you're probably right seeing how I'm a troll that cant speak coherently. I'll be the first person to say that MMA is extremely useful and works really well in the streets. But I'm not saying that its the BEST and ONLY thing you can do.

    I dont know, you must have woken up on the wrong side of the bed, or maybe you've argued this repeatedly and I'm just rehashing old material - either way your response isnt anything above childishness and insulting (but may be justified). Especially, when someones just trying not even to put an argument - but to see if something already might have different application.

    Your entire argument seems to founded solely upon a solitary hate of allll reality-based self defense. When, schools like Senshido are just as intense as any MMA schools yet change certain aspects to be better adapted towards more unpredictable combat. Its like, some knowledge of handling or an unarmed attack against a knife - or for that matter, a situation when I've got a knife and my opponent has a knife would be better than never having touched a knife before right? Like, how could you possibly argue against that point? Its just saying take Tito Ortiz, show him how use a knife were he to ever be in a situation where he'd have one and his opponent has one (slim to none chances of it happening, but it could still happen) - he'd do better than he would before learning how to fight with a knife.

    Military and law enforcement always try and address gun/knife situations - are you telling me that all the training they do is pointless and useless? That all their tactics to retain their own guns, and stuff, or prevent someone else from pulling theirs useless?

    Maybe you are - but ****, I sure a hell have never seen such a close minded MMA guy before. Like, I'm rolling with people all day that agree that some things dont work - and if they do - they hurt a lot if you do it somewhere different.

    But of course - I'm that troll you're talking about.

    Too bad though.

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