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  1. Djimbe is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/06/2004 1:29am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Emiare_Pac :

    Great Article ! I always chuckle under my breath whenever MODERN boxing techniques are lauded as "The Best Way To Fight With Your Hands" . Yeah , if you have a Cornerman follow you about your entire life , and a quarter of an hour to Wrap and Prep , perhaps ! Training for Modern Boxing , while a possible $maker , shortens your effective guard by quite a bit , and unless you walk about with Hand-Pillows all the time thats a horrible idea . But the problem is that if you question the variants on your ingrained reactions that Sportive training has or what it Neglects to teach you always get some mook Piping up about "Aliveness" and/or spouting someone's Ring Records at you . And as for anyone that says "Just Add Dirt" - crap . Thats not going to change the fact that youre elbows are too bent to keep the Distance , nor stop someone from driving your own Knuckles into your face if they have any ability to generate power whatsoever . Why ? Because you Fight like you Train . And the more "Alive" or "Active" yoru training , the more Ingrained the lesson . Too bad that it was a Lesson Predicatedd on False Faith that your Gear would always be there to Protect you/do your Fighting for you .

    The problem then is that things like RBSDs then come along and try to build Stopgaps in the kind of holes that these thigns create , yet usually these Stopgaps are poor apliques of Spackle , and notably lacking in Stuctural signifigance . Why is this the issue ? Because ppl spend so much time looking at and "picking Apart" the cruddy "soloutions" that they covered with that the issues themselves become forgotten or written off with blanket statements or Catchphrases that usually have even LESS basis in Reality .
  2. BeeVaEeTa is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/06/2004 2:08am


     Style: BJJ / Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by JackHanma

    Why does WC lack merit, because the claim that the vertical fist where the bottom three knuckles are the contact point is safer than hitting with larger knuckles is wrong.
    I had no idea that WC/WT, etc taught to punch with the bottom three knuckles, is that true for most lineages of WC/WT??

    I would have thought that NO style would advocate striking with emphasis on the bottom three knuckles.
  3. Darting Fingers is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2004 2:08am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don't make assumptions about people Jackhamma, for example that someone who happens to train wc knows absolutely nothing about boxing.
    I was talking about pugilism not modern boxing where one wraps their hands and covers them with gloves.
    Both the vertical and horizontal fist have their merits http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...threadid=13185 is a thread addressing this, cant remember what was the outcome but may be some interest to you.
    "Pussyhole"
  4. Djimbe is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/06/2004 2:34am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why is it that every time some Noob brings up the Emin/Cheung thing that they forget that Emin was a Noob when it happened ?

    They always say "When 2 of Wing Chun's Best" blah blah blah ... Cheung was full of it , and Emin went full Bullshido McThrowdown on his ass as a NEWBIE ! Thats got to be Respected on some level .
  5. Little Idea is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2004 2:44am

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     Style: EBMAS WT(& Prenatal Yoga)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Shumagorath

    Did he advocate that specific hand alignment (last three knuckles forward)? Was that with gloves on or without? Which type of punch was he talking about?
    Yep, Jack did

    http://stickgrappler2.tripod.com/kbox/dempsey9.html
    If a `religion' is defined to be a system of ideas that contains unprovable statements, then Godel taught us that mathematics is not only a religion, it is the only religion that can prove itself to be one. -- John Barrow

    Talk to TBK's boyfriend:

  6. Little Idea is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2004 3:51am

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     Style: EBMAS WT(& Prenatal Yoga)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by JackHanma

    What I know:

    1. You cannot generate the same force with a WC straight punch as you can with a boxing punch.
    2. Hitting with the lower three knuckles will injure your hand...I know because I listened to idiots like you and got myself hurt. Stop telling people bullshit like this and causing injuries.
    You don't know ****.

    Hanma, you are the one who should shut the **** up. Seriously, you really don't know what the **** you are talking about.

    Punch however the **** you want, but most injuries to the small bones in the hand are to people trying to punch with the two big knuckles.

    Question: If BKB boxing style is so close WC and WC style punches are the best then why don't they punch like that in MMA (where the gloves are small and rules similiar to pugilism) or BK Karate?
    Uhhm, BK karate guys train karate so they will obviously punch with the punches they trained.

    For one thing, any glove at all will change the way a fist can accommodate impact, even the thinnest leather glove. Furthermore MMA is in its infancy, every year or two there is a huge shift in what people think is 'the deadly'. (i.e.BJJ -> Wrestlers -> Kickboxers_who_can_sprawl -> whatever_the_ ****_Sakaraba_did -> Darth_Fedor_pounding_your_face_in_your own_guard) I'll go out on a limb and predict you will start to see some more vertical fists as the game evolves.


    First, mordern boxing has vertical fists just not straight vertical fists (once against proving WCers should STFU about boxing). Second, no one said that you shouldn't use a vertical fist, I said you should not hit with the smaller knuckles.
    First, there is no such thing as 'modern boxing'. If you go to 10 different boxing gyms, you will learn 10 different sets of details on how to throw a jab. Second, it doesn't make as much difference with hand wraps and gloves on. (which is another reason many boxers hurt there hands when they get into it at the club on the weekend, they never learned to hit with the proper form because the gloves let them get away with it.) Third, Boxing has punches with horizontal fist that land on the bottom three knuckles. Do you seriously try to hit with the two big knuckles when you throw hooks?


    Why does WC lack merit, because the claim that the vertical fist where the bottom three knuckles are the contact point is safer than hitting with larger knuckles is wrong.
    You are just talking out your ass.

    The boxer's fracture is due to the power created by improved machanics and an improper fist.
    If by 'improper fist' you mean, trying to punch with the two big knuckles. I already explained, this injury is most often cause by trying to punch with the two big knuckles. Follow your own logic here, boxers in your world are supposedly trying to punch with the two big knuckles, so how the **** are they getting hurt in metacarpal on the smallest finger?

    Most wrist injuries occur along the Ulna side not the Radial so hitting in a way that puts more pressure on the weak side of the wrist and hand is stupid;
    Actually, punching with the bottom three knuckles puts the weak side of the wrist in to a much better alignment to absorb impact. Make a fist horizontal fist aligned to punch with the two big knuckles and just look at the alignment on the ulna side. (Do it right now) If the punch isn't perfect and 'accidentally' makes impact towards the smallest knuckle, how is the wrist going to accommodate that impact?

    Q.E.D
    end of discussion.
    I wish it were.

    Like I said before, punch however the **** you want.
    Last edited by Little Idea; 7/06/2004 3:54am at .
    If a `religion' is defined to be a system of ideas that contains unprovable statements, then Godel taught us that mathematics is not only a religion, it is the only religion that can prove itself to be one. -- John Barrow

    Talk to TBK's boyfriend:

  7. wingchunnewbie is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/06/2004 5:57am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Jenfucius
    seriously though, no one would have ever heard of wing chun except for bruce lee
    Quite true. And he did move on to other things. But that doesn't mean wing chun isn't any good.
  8. Darting Fingers is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2004 6:05am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Little Idea, top notch.
    I just can't be bothered deconstructing all the **** that comes up even though some of it I agree with in some ways.
    "Pussyhole"
  9. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2004 7:11am

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     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Djimbe
    Emiare_Pac :

    Great Article ! I always chuckle under my breath whenever MODERN boxing techniques are lauded as "The Best Way To Fight With Your Hands" . Yeah , if you have a Cornerman follow you about your entire life , and a quarter of an hour to Wrap and Prep , perhaps ! Training for Modern Boxing , while a possible $maker , shortens your effective guard by quite a bit , and unless you walk about with Hand-Pillows all the time thats a horrible idea . But the problem is that if you question the variants on your ingrained reactions that Sportive training has or what it Neglects to teach you always get some mook Piping up about "Aliveness" and/or spouting someone's Ring Records at you . And as for anyone that says "Just Add Dirt" - crap . Thats not going to change the fact that youre elbows are too bent to keep the Distance , nor stop someone from driving your own Knuckles into your face if they have any ability to generate power whatsoever . Why ? Because you Fight like you Train . And the more "Alive" or "Active" yoru training , the more Ingrained the lesson . Too bad that it was a Lesson Predicatedd on False Faith that your Gear would always be there to Protect you/do your Fighting for you .

    How many boxers have you fought that you were able to do any of that to (punch their hands into their face, etc)? How about boxers in YOUR weight class? What about the Xingyiquan tenent of keeping your elbows close to your ribs?

    I'll take boxing over your training to talk about why you can beat boxers by doing forms and bellyflopping on people.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 7/06/2004 9:05am at .
  10. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/06/2004 7:34am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I really don't see the similarities between Wing chun and Boxing, can somebody show me?
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