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  1. JackHanma is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2004 2:10pm


     Style: MantisShrimpFu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by WingChun Lawyer
    The three smaller knuckles.
    There's the problem. It doesn't make sense if you consider the physical mechanics and anatomy of the wrist and hand. 3/4 or all wrist injuries occur along the ulna side of the wrist so putting extreme pressure on that articulation is irrational.

    Also, the index and middle metacarpals are much stronger and larger than the ring and small metalcarpals and have support from the thumb position.

    This is the reason I dismissed most Wing Chun. I used to practice the vertical fist quite often but I injured my wrist. While getting it treated I asked the doctor about proper mechanics for impact and he said that the perfectly straight vertical fist was inhereitly dangerous for hard impact if the contact points where not the larger knuckles. Also, I asked my boxing coach, a man who has spent much of his life punching about the vertical fist and the he said the same thing as the doctor. He said that he has hit with the smaller knuckles while getting a partial hit in the ring. It has caused many injuries. It increases the likelyhood of the breaking those smaller knuckles and the wrist.
  2. WingChun Lawyer is offline
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    Modesty forbids more.

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2004 2:27pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by JackHanma
    Also, the index and middle metacarpals are much stronger and larger than the ring and small metalcarpals and have support from the thumb position.
    Interesting. My MT coach said the same. However, I find it easier to avoid bending the wrist when doing bagwork if I use a vertical fist than a horizontal fist.

    Personally, when I throw a vertical punch I try to hit with the middle knuckles - it gives me a better sense of security.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  3. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2004 2:28pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Re: Wing Chun FAQ

    Originally posted by Das Moose
    1. All Wing Chun sucks!

    A: No, it doesn't. While I agree with you that most, or a lot of WC is McDojo and BS, there are still the few schools who know where its really at. Mine's one of them.
    I hate to piss on the parade, but EVERY Wing Chun student says this.
  4. WingChun Lawyer is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2004 2:31pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Doesn´t make it less true.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  5. mod com gym is offline

    MMA Instructor

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2004 2:42pm


     Style: mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How about a comparison of the problem different styles get into when their training over emphasizes 1 aspect of a fight?
    WC - too much 'trapping' = getting out wrestled in the clinch
    BJJ - too much taking it to the ground = get knocked out before you get there or pounded once you do
    This is a problem all styles and people can fall into - we all have things we just enjoy more - we need an open mind and discipline to keep our total game balanced
    ALSO
    I think the point that the method of TRAINING makes the difference is an excellent one!
  6. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2004 2:45pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by WingChun Lawyer
    Doesn´t make it less true.
    Actually, it does. That rationalization is given by fighters and deluded bullshidoka alike.
  7. Das Moose is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2004 2:52pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think i've given enough proof.
  8. EternalRage is offline
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    WARNING: BJJ may cause airway obstruction.

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2004 2:55pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bajillion Joo Jizzu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    JACKHANNA - it is true that the first and middle finger knuckles are not only larger but also backed up by a large bone in ur hand and also your thumb muscle. Its safer to punch with it. But in WC I was taught if you use the vertical fist, you go after vital targets that wont break your hand, ie the neck, throat, floating rib, temples. My master told us if you try and punch them straight in their face or ribcage that there is chance you might damage knuckles or your wrist might twist weird.

    But definitely if youre trying to break through like 6 inches of pine or something, use the first and middle finger knuckles. I learned this the hard way when i shattered the third knuckle on my right hand years ago on a metal pole...
  9. Das Moose is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2004 2:58pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think my instructor once said something about striking with all four knuckles. I interpeted this to mean you're trying to make your fist flat on the impact surface, as for obvious reasons it's impossible to strike with all four. Personally I try to hit with my middle knuckle and whatever's around it.
  10. pst is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2004 3:00pm


     Style: WC, etc.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm glad you posted this Das Moose. Good information and a good discussion started. If you are doing gaan dau your turning deflects the punch while turning into your rear hand punch. Trying it with the gear is a good idea. It is training that makes the difference.
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