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  1. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2004 10:00am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Really? how so?
  2. wing_muay is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2004 12:40pm


     Style: WC, Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In my experience, WC would be useful against untrained opponents. But I really did not see much use in doing chi-sao. The tactile reflexes that one builds seems to be useful merely in chi-sao. Those reflexes are not that useful against an opponent who clinches closely and uses his/her knees and elbows effectively
  3. drake is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2004 1:55pm


     Style: BJJ, Muai thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Freddy
    Standing with a co-operated pre-determine distance for balance practice etc is totally bullshit. Thats exactly why alot of wing chun school sucks because of these type of nonsense.
    At my old school, we moved around while doing chi sau using different types of energy in an attempt to break each others structure and balance. It was said that we believed a fighter who had no balance in movement has no kung fu.

    A lot of the time I would play against a larger opponent and I would have to learn to redirect his energy so I wouldnt have to take a step back. Other times, if I wanted to take a step forward on an opponent, I would have to come in at an angle through his structure explosively to force him backward. Then as you both become more sensitive to the energy you cant move with out some sort of trick or distraction because you would be easily redirected and put in a comprimising position. Kind of like samurai's who wait for the right moment to attack.

    Nice drill, but not really how fights would happen, especially in the clinch, and even against untrained opponents. I think its good for weapons fighting though.
  4. Freddy is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2004 5:55pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by waapwoop
    Freddy: How can I have got it wrong? If you read my post I said I could move my hands faster than supercrap. I know he is fast, but hey...


    I will put it very simply for you Freddy. Don't talk about waht you don't know about. People that do this are called dickheads.
    Originally posted by supercrap
    .....The main thing is to improve your basics of structure and relaxation.

    ....... knowing when to relax, and learning proper positioning.

    Same with chi sau. It's not just learning to move your hands really fast or something like that.
    First of all understand the difference between action and reaction. You havnt explian a thing so I guess by your own statement your a dickhead. I asked you several things. Yes I am calling you out on this. You havnt explained a thing. Its simple just answer the questions.

    If you want to learn balance take judo. Balanced is not learnt in a static position. You want to learn power and structor try hitting a punching bag. Not this tai chi crap.

    Dont make remarks you cant back up.
    Last edited by Freddy; 7/27/2004 6:12pm at .
    Ghost of Charles Dickens
  5. Freddy is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2004 6:07pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by waapwoop
    Umm. No. flawed logic.
    You make these comments but yet you cant elaborate and back them up. "How so? etc"
    Ghost of Charles Dickens
  6. Freddy is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2004 6:11pm

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    Originally posted by drake
    At my old school, we moved around while doing chi sau using different types of energy in an attempt to break each others structure and balance. It was said that we believed a fighter who had no balance in movement has no kung fu.

    Which is alot better than most wing chun schools. Balance in movement is an important key.
    Ghost of Charles Dickens
  7. waapwoop is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2004 9:26pm


     Style: Wing Chun

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Freddy: it was a simple statement. You were wrong. If you really wanted to know something, you would work it out for yourself.
  8. supercrap is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/27/2004 9:55pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here you go Freddy.


    I would strongly disagree. How are you improving your balance/ability to control your partner/structor/relaxation etc by standing co-operatly and at a fixed distanced.
    ----------------------------------------------
    You don't think that striking, sticking, evading, counter attacking, or redirection have anything at all to do with balance?

    Let me explain it for you.

    You are improving your balance because the first thing you need to be able to attack is balance. If you have none, then your attack will be useless, you will probably push yourself in the opposite direction. Chi sau trains you to do this. This leads on to...

    Relaxation. In order to be able to stay grounded and generate force and stay quick, you need to be relaxed. If you are not relaxed in chi sau, you will quickly lose your balance and be pushed and pulled around. So you need relaxation and balance, both of which chi sau trains. This leads on to...

    The ability to control your partner. If you want to hit without being hit, you need to be able to control the other person. Through chi sau training you develop the ability to be able to cover the other person's attacks whilst delivering your own. You cannot do this without a good sense of balance, or relaxation, or structure. By practicing chi sau you are practicing these things. This leads on to structure...

    If you have no structure, then you can't attack. Think of it in REALLY basic terms as strength (but this is only an analogy.) the one with the more strength will be able to attack freely. Now, structure is almost a substitute for strength. If you are stronger, you don't need any of the above, you can just muscle your way through. Structure brings the playing field level again by allowing you to more effectively coordinate your body, and release incoming pressure. By training chi sau, your structure will improve as you learn to deal with attacks and deliver your own effectively.

    There are many different levels of chi sau, ranging from beginners learning the movements to advanced students smacking the hell out of each other.


    -------------------------------------

    This is the type of B.S. thats being perpetuated by alot of crapy wing chun schools.

    ------------------------------------

    No, what is bullshit is people who have no idea about wing chun claiming that all the fancy flapping arms crap will work without a good grasp of the basics. Wing chun will not, and does not, work, if you try to apply all the movements without the basics I mentioned. Basically, you need Relaxation and structure. These aren't even unique to wing chun. I'm not claiming that. (anymore! ;) )

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    (That "relaxation" remark bit irks me even more. Sounds like Tai chi crap. And also "structor" sounds like the same Tai chi crap.)

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    Hmm. Well all I know is that it allows me to punch hard and deflect blows effectively. So it's not crap to me.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------


    In a real fight you and your opponent wont be at touch distance for any long length of period

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Please, don't get chi sau (a training tool) confused with fighting. That's like saying 'There's no point hitting a heavy bag because in real life, your opponent won't be made of leather and strung up on the ceiling.' Whatever contact you do make in a fight, chi sau helps you to be able to deal with that contact and strike through.


    (unless theres a full clinch) and the last thing your opponent is going to do is co-operate with you. Its more likely you and your opponet would dart in and out of each other contact range (or clinch together). If you want to learn proper balance its not by standing still its by learning it in motion (and the same with positioning).

    --------------------------------------------------------

    Yes well, chi sau is not stationary. Not where I train anyway.

    ---------------------------------------------------------



    You got that wrong. Its not only how fast you can move but more importantlly how fast is your reaction is to his offensive movement. Standing with a co-operated pre-determine distance for balance practice etc is totally bullshit. Thats exactly why alot of wing chun school sucks because of these type of nonsense.

    How many wing chun schools have you trained in? For how long? I just mean you don't seem to understand the training methodologies.

    I tried to explain them to you, hope that helps!
    Last edited by supercrap; 7/27/2004 11:49pm at .
  9. supercrap is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/27/2004 9:57pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Apologies for the crappy formatting.
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  10. Freddy is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2004 11:41pm

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    Originally posted by waapwoop
    Freddy: it was a simple statement. You were wrong. If you really wanted to know something, you would work it out for yourself.
    I will say thhis the second time back up your statements.
    Ghost of Charles Dickens
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