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  1. supercrap is offline
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    Founder/GrandSensei of Joint British / Papua New Guinean Non-contact Lawn Bowls Jiu Jitsu Committee

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    Posted On:
    7/12/2004 11:15pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good work Omar...

    Sticking hands is not only used to develop tactile reflexes. What you see of sticking hands in an actual fight will be instant, and not look like chi sau at all. But the way your body structure and everything else improves when you practice chi sau will be apparent in the amount of force you can generate and the amount of force you can neutralise.

    edit: Why is it a flawed metaphor? That is exactly the way I practice. My arm is stuck to yours, as a watch is on a wrist, up until the moment the way is free, whereupon it becomes a strike. If the strike is intercepted, it goes back to sticking and controlling until the way is free again. As I said, in reality, this all happens far quicker than in chi sau itself...
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  2. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

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    Posted On:
    7/12/2004 11:46pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Because a watch is actually wrapped all the way around your arm. It's not 'stuck' on. It's tied on. A watch doesn't 'follow' your hand around. If you maintained contact my grabbing on to your opponents arm and holding on tight, that's what it would be. So I don't think it's a good metaphore. If it helps you, great. But its not very convincing.

    Maybe...I dunno. I can't think of a good one at the moment.
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
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    Bah!!! Puny Humans.


  3. supercrap is offline
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    Founder/GrandSensei of Joint British / Papua New Guinean Non-contact Lawn Bowls Jiu Jitsu Committee

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    Posted On:
    7/12/2004 11:56pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, I see what you mean.

    I did not mean grab at all.

    But, the end result is the same... Something that moves with you, rather than reacts to your movement and moves accordingly. Try this experiment... HAve someone put their arm out. Put yours on and try to stick with it as they move it around. Now, try it again, only this time, don't actually try... Just rest it on there arm completely relaxed. Now as they move, yours will move with it. Now, I'm not suggesting to rest your arm completely relaxed on someone when fighting. Just that it is possible to use relaxation to stick onto something and practically bypass the need for reaction time.
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  4. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2004 12:29am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Do you really think you need to explain it to me.

    If I didn't 'get it' I wouldn't be picky about the metaphore. Duh!!!
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGaYD_wcaIg

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    Bah!!! Puny Humans.


  5. supercrap is offline
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    Founder/GrandSensei of Joint British / Papua New Guinean Non-contact Lawn Bowls Jiu Jitsu Committee

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2004 12:57am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh yeah.

    Recalibrating intelligence modules......................... Done!
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  6. waapwoop is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2004 6:18am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One thing you missed, is that if there is nothing in the centreline to stick to, then they get hit.
  7. Stold3 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2004 1:31am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Masakzu Imanari is crazy
  8. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2004 2:22am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Stold, did you post on the right thread?

    WTF are U talking about?
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
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    Bah!!! Puny Humans.


  9. Blad3 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2004 9:11am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Submission Wrestling.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Das Moose - if you posted a video of what you're saying, nobody could argue; they couldn't say ****. :)
    "Training = pain." - I said that.

    PizDoff when drunk: "I'm actually MOST pissed that my target for the evening got drink...then I gave her my Bullshido Canada hoodie like a gentleman because she was outside with not much on...did I mention she barfed twice when I got our jackets...steaming barf is kinda fascinating..." - PizDoff.
  10. 50pence is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2004 1:34pm


     Style: Fling Shit Hi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have studied a little Ving Tsun.

    The centreline/motherline is the same thing in my opinion. The concept of attacking the centreline relates not to an imaginary line drawn down the front of the body (eyes, throat etc.), but the vertical axis of the opponent.

    Centreline theory is important in terms of the use of angles in VT; moving in at 45 degrees for example and attacking toward the centreline will put you in a structurally advantageous position, useful for leg to leg attacks, punching or takedowns. Simple, obvious, applies to any art.

    Some VT/WC schools don't make much of the angles in footwork training, but it is where the style derives its strength. You can see how the footwork is applied well in a good Dragon style school (Dragon kung fu being a southern Chinese art that likely influenced VT). Good Dragon schools are rare, I know of one to the north of London UK that trains serious fighters and can pass on details to anyone interested.

    The square on facing the opponent approach is good for some chi sau training (equal stress either side of the body), but it is also necessary to train in a fighting stance, side on. If you shift an archetypal VT stance to a side on stance, you may find that you suddenly resemble John L Sullivan, or a XingYi/Ziranmen boxer. It is important to recognise tools to training understanding/concept, and tools for fighting. The second evolves from the first.

    With the weight more on the back leg, you can spring forward quickly (like XingYi chicken step), but I prefer standing evenly balanced. I find it far better for moving in multiple directions and it is better for realistic multiple opponent fighting. It is also easier to control your centre of gravity. I also find it easier to change my height quickly when my feet are evenly balanced (e.g. drop into a low stance), which capitalises on one of the common weaknesses of VT, that schools tend not to train at different height ranges.

    Draw the 8 points of the compass on your training room floor and practice stepping along them from the centrepoint, as if attacking and as if evading. Do it low or high, fast and slow. It is a fine drill for hardwiring good footwork habits into any training. Triangle stepping is also good for infighting/clashing on the 45 degree angle, very handy for VT.

    As for punching.... for fucks sake, just hit them.
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