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  1. Little Idea is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/07/2004 9:14pm

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     Style: EBMAS WT(& Prenatal Yoga)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just when you thought/hoped this thread could die. . .

    Hanmanster is like a rabid chihuahua.

    However, the nature of my injury was the unla side of the wrist from when contact on the three small knuckles put pressure on my wrist cause injury unla side articulation.
    Perhaps you are predisposed to wrist injuries?

    And for you information there is this little thing known as Vale Tudo that been going in Brazil for more than 40 years...how many Wing Chun punches do you
    see?
    How much Brazilian Vale Tudo have you seen? How much free striking was there?

    All that part proves is that you don't know how to throw a proper hook. If you have ever done hooks with a heavy bad without your gloves you DO NOT hit with the bottom three knuckles.
    I do it all the time, with and without gloves. To me, trying to punch with the two big knuckles with a hook feels fucking retarded.

    You failed logic class didn't you. The reason for punching with the two larger knuckles is so that you don't break you don't hurt your hand on the weaker side.
    You failed English class didn't you? Have you been reading this thread? This has been thoroughly explored. Explain it to me with your logic: Why is the most common injury on the 5th metacarpal when people are trying to hit with the 2nd and 3rd?

    Till then be prepared for verbal retailition of the Usenet on Steriods kind....that goes for you EternalRapistmuttfucker.
    At least you are funny
    Last edited by Little Idea; 7/07/2004 9:20pm at .
    If a `religion' is defined to be a system of ideas that contains unprovable statements, then Godel taught us that mathematics is not only a religion, it is the only religion that can prove itself to be one. -- John Barrow

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  2. JackHanma is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/07/2004 10:35pm


     Style: MantisShrimpFu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Little Idea
    Just when you thought/hoped this thread could die. . .

    Hanmanster is like a rabid chihuahua.
    Perhaps you are predisposed to wrist injuries?
    How much Brazilian Vale Tudo have you seen? How much free striking was there?
    Yes I am rabid. Yes, anyone who hits as hard as I do is prone to injuries (I need to build up those forearms). You kinda missed the point...people don't use vertical fist for straight punches.

    Originally posted by Little Idea

    I do it all the time, with and without gloves. To me, trying to punch with the two big knuckles with a hook feels fucking retarded.
    First, Right hook or left hook (vice versa for Southpaw)? I don't see how its even possible to make contact with small knuckles if you make contact using a horizontal right useless you partially miss the target. Second, a proper left isn't horizontal...its starts as a vertical fist and rotates into a horizontally with the follow through...the contact point is somewhere between. Think about it...why would I raise my elbow from the left side guard position in order to make it horizontal and telegraph the punch leaving my kidneys and liver exposed? No...I kept my elbows in till I rotate my shoulder over with pivot on the lead foot.

    Originally posted by Little Idea
    You failed English class didn't you? Have you been reading this thread? This has been thoroughly explored. Explain it to me with your logic: Why is the most common injury on the 5th metacarpal when people are trying to hit with the 2nd and 3rd?
    Uhh...because they MISS hitting with the 2nd and 3rd metacarpal. I fail to see how deliberately striking with 4th and 5th helps anything.

    At least you are funny [/B][/QUOTE]

    Let's read and article. http://www.emedicine.com/orthoped/topic193.htm

    Here's a chioce quote: Fractures of the 5th metacarpal neck are among the most common fractures in the hand. Usually, these fractures are caused by striking a solid object with a closed fist and thus are dubbed boxer fractures; although, this injury almost NEVER (emphasis mine) occurs during boxing. Typically, a skilled fighter fractures the index metacarpal because instead of using a "roundhouse" type motion, the blow comes straight from the body along the line of greatest force transmission.


    Kinda blows your theory out of the water (and most of Wing Chun with it as well).

    Here's another article: http://www.physicaltherapywebsites.c...rfractures.asp

    Quote:The most common fracture of the hand occurs at the base of the little finger-at the far end of the fifth metacarpal bone. This fracture is known as a boxer's fracture because it is caused by striking the FIFTH (emphasis mine) knuckle against a "hard" head or other unyielding object. Ironically, I have treated very few boxers with this fracture because they wear padded gloves.

    Here's another: http://www.eatonhand.com/hw/hw005.htm

    Quote: The end of the metacarpal bone takes the brunt of the impact, which usually breaks through the narrowest area near the end (the "neck") and bends down toward the palm.

    It then shows a picture of the impact being on the FIFTH metacarpal (The picture should be familiar).

    Unlike you, I just don't cited medical articles...I actually read them. You should know better than to argue about what causes the fracture of the Boxer's namesake with a boxer.

    I will deal with the Dempsy arguement at a later time.
  3. drake is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/07/2004 10:58pm


     Style: BJJ, Muai thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Jack Hanma, please just read what people posted and stop being so thick-headed. Even the medical articles you quoted mentioned that boxers use gloves. You are arguing around the actual topic here. We do not dispute the boxer's fracture being the 5th knuckle however you injured it using a boxers style punch. You seem to be getting emotional about this. Must have traumatized you.
    Last edited by drake; 7/07/2004 11:03pm at .
  4. JackHanma is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/08/2004 12:14am


     Style: MantisShrimpFu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by drake
    Jack Hanma, please just read what people posted and stop being so thick-headed. Even the medical articles you quoted mentioned that boxers use gloves. You are arguing around the actual topic here. We do not dispute the boxer's fracture being the 5th knuckle however you injured it using a boxers style punch. You seem to be getting emotional about this. Must have traumatized you.
    Quote: Typically, a skilled fighter fractures the index metacarpal because instead of using a "roundhouse" type motion, the blow comes straight from the body along the line of greatest force transmission.

    What about this sentence do you not understand? What does this sentence mean?

    The reason I am getting mad is because you traditionalist will not admit that the classical Wing Chun is wrong about the verticle fist with the three knuckles simply because it is tradition. You continue use give bad training advice that will get people hurt. I am tried of having to make the same points over and over again.

    So Wing Chun is wrong about the three knuckles...you still have some nice low line kicks....I seen a couple of good parries as well. I'm not saying junk the system just fix the three knuckles stuff and move on.
  5. supercrap is offline
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    Founder/GrandSensei of Joint British / Papua New Guinean Non-contact Lawn Bowls Jiu Jitsu Committee

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    Posted On:
    7/08/2004 12:17am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Must... resist...

    If it works fine for people, with no injury, for years, then of course people are not going to listen to you when you tell them to stop doing it.

    "It has worked fine for me for all of my years training."
    What about this sentence do you not understand?
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  6. JackHanma is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/08/2004 12:49am


     Style: MantisShrimpFu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote: "It has worked fine for me for all of my years training."

    So you admit that tradition is the only reason you insist on this method? Then you mut have a really weak punch because there is no way you can repeatedly hit the small knuckles with forces exceeding 500 lbs and not break something. Period! Wing Chun was just owned...again.
  7. Little Idea is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/08/2004 1:39am

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     Style: EBMAS WT(& Prenatal Yoga)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!


    Hanma hits so hard he hurt his wrist :eek:

    Too bad nothing can penetrate his thick skull. . .
    If a `religion' is defined to be a system of ideas that contains unprovable statements, then Godel taught us that mathematics is not only a religion, it is the only religion that can prove itself to be one. -- John Barrow

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  8. supercrap is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/08/2004 2:21am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You just owned yourself with your immense stupidity. Way to go. :)
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  9. Das Moose is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/08/2004 2:37am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "And for you information there is this little thing known as Vale Tudo that been going in Brazil for more than 40 years...how many Wing Chun punches do you
    see?"

    Did you actually READ the faq instead of just continuing a pointless flamewar about punching methods? quote: "I got the mount, and started chain punching." WVC12, BRAZIL. Sure, the vast majority of vale tudo fighters are NOT wing chun instructers, but hey, my instructor managed to pull it off against a gracie blackbelt - and this was a bareknuckle fight, as well.
  10. Das Moose is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/08/2004 2:41am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh, and Jack? When someone says "it's worked fine for me in all my years of training" - no, that doesn't mean they're just doing it for the sake of it. It means that in all the years they've been training, it's worked fine for them.

    And on the whole topic of punching methods? As long as you can hit fucking hard with it, without damaging your first, what's the problem? Both boxing style and WC style punches work effectively if you do them right.

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