Posted On:7/05/2004 6:27am
After countless, countless times hearing the same **** in relation to WT, thought it might be time for me to post an FAQ.
1. All Wing Chun sucks!
A: No, it doesn't. While I agree with you that most, or a lot of WC is McDojo and BS, there are still the few schools who know where its really at. Mine's one of them.
2. What makes your school different?
A: Realism. You basically take your technique, and test it. For example, last week in class, we were doing a fairly stereotypical WT technique called "Guan Sau Punch" where a punch is thrown at your stomach, and you use your front hand to chop down on it and block it, while simultaneously punching the face with your back hand. After doing it non-contact and with no gear on a few times, sifu broke out the helmets and you either had to block the full power punch to the stomach and then hit back with a full power punch to the head, or attempt to hit the stomach and defend your head. After most people had had a go at this and were getting pretty good, sifu had two of the top students put on the gear, and go totally free - either one of them could throw the technique, and either one had to defend. So in what was almost a totally open atmosphere, with controls, they managed to pull it of and make it look almost exactly the same as the totally closed drilling we had done at the start of the class - and it worked.
Sidenote: It's also very important to note that, as MrMcFu says, training is more important than style - as long as you have decent techniques, if you train them properly then they will work. So on this note you should judge styles on they're training method - which means you need to judge individual schools rather than styles.
3: WC's never been tested in Vale tudo!
A: Ummm actually, yes it has.
Thomas Lamont, 3rd TG Wing Tzun, Instructor, Chum Sut Total Fighting Academy
[/list][list=1][*]1. Pak Sau, going forward, at the elbow, and on centerline, clearly working.[*]2. Simultaneous punch, which is clearly vertical, on centreline, and looks pretty much exactly as i've seen him demonstrate it in WT class countless times.[*]3. Simultaneous knee, also on centerline.[*]4. Back foot at a 45 degree angle with clearly all of his wait on it (normal distribution is 70-30)[/list=1]
All of this is very very WT. Yep, i readily admit that he uses other arts as well - and teaches them - but still doesn't change the fact that those are textbook WT techniques which are clearly shown here.
Another example i know of was the WVC12 fight in brazil. At one point, the guy threw a hook - and there's a textbook fak sau punch technique used. He actually teaches that in some of the vale tudo oriented classes, becuase it works damn well against hooks. He also used ground and pound - with chain punching. "He went down I got the mount position and started chain punching."
This leads me onto the next point -
4. But WT people never win vale tudo fights, and when they do win, they never use WT! (quoted from Blad3)
A: Well, there are several examples of him winning. And it's pretty obvious from examples detailed above that he uses a lot of WT. The WT he teaches is certainly not "WT with vale tudo bits" - in fact ,as mentioned earlier, the vale tudo oriented classes often have WT moves taught in them to supplement the boxing and thai boxing used - whereas in the WT class i've never seen him use a vale tudo technique except as a comparisonal tool or an example of an application.
5. Generic lineage query
A: No one gives a ****. I mean honestly, it really doesn't matter. If someone is obsessed with having the correct lineage, they're doing WC for the wrong reasons.
6. WC Punches have no power.
A: My punchbag begs to differ. I've done a bit of boxing, can pull of a pretty solid jab-cross that i've used in free sparring to nail some people a few times, and my WT chain punches, single punches, and combos compare favourably with it. Sure, standing on the spot chain punches obviously don't have just as much power as my boxin punches with the full body in - but my WT punches with the full body in are close enough to my boxing punches that i can't see any difference in the power. Oh, and i've hit someone, and had someone hit me, with both kinds, and believe me, if you got hit with a properly done, decent WT punch, you'd know it.
I think that's everything. Would someone please make this sticky? My hope is that n00bs will just read it rather than posting yet another WC thread. IF anyone has anything i've left out, please mention it and i'll be happy to add it.
Btw, don't bother reading beyond this page, unless you want to read over 15 pages of pointlessness. Well, some of it's pretty useful but the rest is pointless.
Edited to add lineage, correct spelling, and add punching power.
Last edited by Das Moose; 7/11/2004 1:40pm at .
Posted On:7/05/2004 6:51am
Style: Jeet Kune Do
Yah i also do WC to help with some hand trapping i do in JKD , the main differnce is just how its applied. In my WC class its very traditional and its done in the goat holding position. In JKD we do it in our kickboxing and do alot more with our footwork and so on. But of all the traditional Gung fu's WC is certianly one of the most effective because its all based on attacking your opponents center line and fastest/direct roots for striking. And WC has a fair few low leged kicks and so on.
Its good your Sifu allows you to perform the techniques in real life applications, my WC sifu is to traditional on his method. But then again im all about my JKD so i get to apply it all then, Plus my WC class sucks and i think they are scared of my JKD :P they prolly spar when im not around.
Badness will not be rewarded
Posted On:7/05/2004 7:23am
This is a good start . . . I would of course mention something about the training methods being more important than the style in this case . . .
Posted On:7/05/2004 7:25am
Ah-hah! Good man. Getting to it now.
Posted On:7/05/2004 7:49am
Style: MuayThai,Igo Ryu Jiujitsu
Yup nice FAQ....too bad there are soo many idiotic wing chunners here :(
Posted On:7/05/2004 7:50am
I think there are too many idiotic wing chunners in the world ;-) But yeah man, i agree. That's what the FAQ's for.
Shogun of Long Island
Posted On:7/05/2004 9:26am
the thing that boggles my mind is that wing chun is only popular because of the association with bruce lee, but bruce lee quit wing chun because he felt it was too restrictive, supposedly.
Posted On:7/05/2004 9:30am
He felt any traditional art was to restrictive, nothing against WC it self. JKD his art still uses a large amount of WC, with the trapping and some of its principles with center line attacks and so on.
Posted On:7/05/2004 9:35am
I think doing WC just because Bruce Lee did it is silly!!!
"In my mind Bruce never strayed that far from Wing Chun principles and ideas"
according to Jesse Glover(bruce Lee's student)
alsoregarding JKD and wing chun:
To quote the late Wing Chun Master Wong Shun Leung. Wing Chun is a good horse but it is difficult to ride. The question that I have always had is Wing Chun an open or a closed approach to fighting? If it is open and someone starts with Wing Chun and ends up with something called Jeet Kune Do is it just an expandtion Wing Chun or is it something new and different. According to Bruce's statements he didn't invent anything new. He took his Wing Chun base and added some ideas from Boxing,fencing and other Gung Fu styles. The latter he never talked much about but I watched him play with ideas from other style. After Bruce returned to Hong Kong and played and compared techniques with Wong, Wong said that he never saw any Jeet Kune Do. To me this can only mean one of two things that either Bruce wasn't showing that much of his stuff to Wong or that he was showing his stuff to Wong and Wong considered it to still fall under the heading of Wing Chun. Let me say that there are some very very good Wing Chun men in the world, like there are some very good people in other martial arts but from what I have seen most martial artists are just average in their ability to make their style work. Usuallt the fame of a particular style rests on the shoulders of a few people. In this regard Wing Chun, Jeet Kund Do or any other art is only as good as the person doing it.
Last edited by DANINJA; 7/05/2004 9:40am at .
Posted On:7/05/2004 9:42am
seriously though, no one would have ever heard of wing chun except for bruce lee
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