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  1. Nihilanthic is offline

    Decafinated white belt.

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    Jul 2002
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    JacksonFAILLE Flor-i-duh
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    1,521

    Posted On:
    11/07/2002 12:13am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Basically, I've managed to make an enemy of them despite my efforts - and they're not exactly small 5 foot girls. And one is known to come at people with a bat... and has before. What Legal issues do I have to deal with if I defend and cause injury to them? I don't plan on catching a swung bat from a 150 lb teenage girl who plays fast-pitch, or doing fancy wristlocks.

    When the bat swings I strike and/or close distance so its her arms hitting me, not the weapon - can I get in trouble if the fact that I'm a "martial artist" comes up? I don't believe in the fancy movie foo-foo crap, nor do most people here - but most adults do. They apparently don't know that coldcocking someone with a bat and two friends is by far the safest thing to do. They're both quite tall, and in shape. I'll just keep a escape path open, but I'm not going to risk my life by not going all-out if trapped... What can I do?

    I think the arguement that could be brought upon me in civil court for "defending to strongly" could be counter-argued with "they could have stopped attacking me, or not done it, and not used a weapon."

    By the way, I just like to call myself "well rounded", and only recently have I taken formal classes (not friends with their own experience, and technique movies) with MT and BJJ - and I mean VERY recently... even if I had years of experience I can't pull a choreographed Seagull fight.

    <Me> John, what do you know about Zen Buddhism? <John> *smacks me*
    <John> I'd have to smack you sometime...
    Katana, on 540 kicks: "Hang from a ceiling fan with both hands. Flail your feet out and ask people to walk into you as you hit their face."
  2. Mercurius is offline
    Mercurius's Avatar

    Wandering Daoist

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    Posted On:
    11/07/2002 3:23am

    supporting member
     Style: Karate, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fancy wrist locks or not, using basic leverage it should be pretty easy to take a bat away from a girl.

    Best idea is to not get surprised/avoid the swings(easier said than done), second best to escape. You could probably cover your ass legally by repeatedly telling them to stop, saying things like "stop or I'll hit you".

    No matter what happens, you're going to look really fucking bad from the viewpoint of someone who didn't see the entire thing; if cops come and see a fight, unless they see her with a bat they're probably gonna tackle and cuff you first. You have to do what you have to do, so don't hesitate. If she's man enough to hit you, she's man enough to get hit back. Women's lib, you know?

    Something else you could do to cover yourself is strike "without intent to harm". Make it so whatever you do creates distance/opportunity to escape (so you won't look like the aggressor), i.e. push them away, trip one and back away, if you have to punch, go for the stomach, etc.

    --------------------
    And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    "The morning glory blooms for an hour. It differs not at heart from the giant pine, which lives for a thousand years."
  3. Deadpan Scientist is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/07/2002 4:17am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you have an escape route, legally you have to take it in most states. If not it's called mutual combat, and is illegal(despite what most of us would like).
  4. 9chambers

    Guest

    Posted On:
    11/07/2002 5:38am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree about the shoving. A good shove can come in pretty handy.

    If she hits you with the bat then grab it. It might be worth taking a hit (broken up by your hands in defense) if you can grab the bat. Then hit or kick at her hands or just pull and you have a bat. (if that doesn't work punch her)

    Don't use it but it might make them run away if you have a bat. If not then .. swing it at their hands or body ~ don't bash a girl's head in or you will go to prison for sure.

    If they don't have bats, .. man girls tend to sometimes over-estimate themselves. A girl your size is just not as strong as you. Knock one of them out and the other ones fight figure that out and take off.

    You are a guy, right?
  5. migo is offline

    Registered Member

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    May 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    446

    Posted On:
    11/07/2002 6:12am


     Style: Baboo Baby

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Take some wrestling and boxing and don't mention that you have other MA training. Most people won't consider them to be martial arts and they go well with BJJ and MT anyway.

    As far as too much force goes, if anyone attacks you with a baseball bat, as long as you don't hurt them too severely and they don't have an infuriatingly good lawyer you should be OK. If you punch her in the face and knock her out/break her nose you can't get in that much trouble since being struck in the head with a baseball bat can be fatal. Also, with escape routes, if you're really scared you're not expected to be thinking as clearly, so if there was an escape route and you didn't notice it or forgot about it because you almost pissed your pants (not that you did, but it'll be in your favor if you make it look like you felt really threatened) you should be ok. But, it all depends on how good your lawyer is and how good her lawyer is. So basically, make sure you have a damn good lawyer no matter what.
  6. Nihilanthic is offline

    Decafinated white belt.

    Join Date
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    JacksonFAILLE Flor-i-duh
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    1,521

    Posted On:
    11/07/2002 8:47pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The problem with them is resolved... I got apoligies from them, a mutual understanding, and a live-and-let-live agreement.

    But, thanks for the info. I should keep it in mind if I'm in a woman-with-a-weapon situation ever...

    And if I tell anyone I know Muay Thai I get puns and jokes about it, people taking ridiculous stances from video games they played, and Sagat jokes (Street fighter series... Sagat is this 7 foot Thai fighter) I did have a little "demo" thing with my friends on the basics and foundation of how the art is today. Kevin, my friend that has done jiujutsu for YEARS (From a one-in-a-million teacher) told me clinching is over-rated - against an excellent grappler and if I don't put an elbow or knee in him. I showed him vids and highlight clips of the real-deal, full contact, and not drills to break clinches (which he did quite well) and he was showed how it transitions into other techniques and some quick elbows. We also sang along to the wu-tang BGM on that Ernesto Hoost highlight vid on sherdog...

    Regarding the rest of it, they're all quite approving of it. Those leg-kicks REALLY were a shock to them.

    <Me> John, what do you know about Zen Buddhism? <John> *smacks me*
    <John> I'd have to smack you sometime...
    Katana, on 540 kicks: "Hang from a ceiling fan with both hands. Flail your feet out and ask people to walk into you as you hit their face."
  7. mikus is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
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    1,283

    Posted On:
    11/08/2002 3:47am


     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    **** yeah, a good traditional jiu-jitsu teacher who'd sing along to wu-tang with me would be rockin!

    How did this whole confrontation start, anyway?
    You want some birth control? You can smoke a cigarette.
  8. Mercurius is offline
    Mercurius's Avatar

    Wandering Daoist

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    Posted On:
    11/08/2002 4:26am

    supporting member
     Style: Karate, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sagat fuckin rules, yo. Best Muay Thai fighter ever.

    "Tiger UPPERCUT!"

    MT leg kicks are the ****, too. In this one Sanshou vs. Boxing battle, one of the Sanshou fighters that used them (Geriletu, I think) had the dude crying on the ground.

    --------------------
    And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    "The morning glory blooms for an hour. It differs not at heart from the giant pine, which lives for a thousand years."
  9. Nihilanthic is offline

    Decafinated white belt.

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    JacksonFAILLE Flor-i-duh
    Posts
    1,521

    Posted On:
    11/08/2002 4:41am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Everyone can understand a dead-leg, or a charlie horse in a leg muscle... but they got dead-legged by some guy joking around. I don't plan on leg-kicking a guy to show him how it cam hurt though...

    After people found out I've conditioned my shins, a female friend sometimes takes a pot-shot at them, but mostly when she tries to steal my sun chips at lunch.

    Regarding those girls, basically its a control issue, and I stopped playing the role of their bitch... long story....

    SAGAT OWNZ!

    <Me> John, what do you know about Zen Buddhism? <John> *smacks me*
    <John> I'd have to smack you sometime...
    Katana, on 540 kicks: "Hang from a ceiling fan with both hands. Flail your feet out and ask people to walk into you as you hit their face."
  10. samantha711 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    243

    Posted On:
    11/09/2002 8:25am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think some of you should lay off the crack, lol
    First off, Martial Artist or not, ANYONE has the right to defend his/herself! You won't get in anymore trouble defending yourself than anyone else, unless you kick their asses to a bloody pulp & leave them on the sidewalk. Necessary force!

    There have been several national news reports of MMA people that have been attacked or tried to stop fights & had to use their skills, they didn't get into any trouble, including the black belt "girl" as you boys like to call em, who kicked the ass of some guy that attacked her. She put him in the hospital...I know, your thinking, but she's a chick. More men have been in the news using MA to defend themselves too.

    I do agree though, don't take any **** from these chicks, I like all people to respect each other..but only in a perfect world. The second a PERSON puts his/her hands on you, deck em. If you can't avoid the confrontation & letting everyone who is watching know that you are trying to avoid it.

    Oh & Mecurius, it's not always that easy to "take a bat away from a girl" lol, don't ever underestimate your opponent!

    <img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle> Sam
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