Are there any good Wing Chun schools in the Houston area?

**Djimbe** · Posted On: 6/19/2004 10:18pm

Stephen :

While I agree with you about Henry Poo Yee's level , and Actually he slipped my Mind , good reminder , but I would still , overall , put Cheng Jin Cai's level/methods a bit above his , having met both . I understand the tendency for ppl to think of Mantis as "More Martial" than Taiji , but in this case , Im afraid its just not so .

**Djimbe** · Posted On: 6/19/2004 10:22pm

Mouthfire :

You see ? WC places cant even make their Students feel like theyre learning anything good/keep them loyal . And hell , we know that there are ppl from SILLY McDojos that SWEAR by them (Yellow Bamboo , Shaolin Kuntao , Shou Shu ...) Thats why I suggested Cheng Jin Cai .

**Mouthfire** · Posted On: 6/19/2004 10:37pm

Originally posted by Djimbe
Mouthfire :

You see ? WC places cant even make their Students feel like theyre learning anything good/keep them loyal . And hell , we know that there are ppl from SILLY McDojos that SWEAR by them (Yellow Bamboo , Shaolin Kuntao , Shou Shu ...) Thats why I suggested Cheng Jin Cai .

Heh... I'll keep that in mind....

**horus2001** · Posted On: 6/19/2004 11:12pm

speaking from my days during wing chun, i remember ken cheung saying the most dangerous kung fu people were the tai chi guys. he seemed to have a lot of influence from tai chi in his wing chun. he spoke very highly of chen tai chi, i believe he even went to chen village. he also had touched hands with one of the lineage holders from chen village, he went on to express much respect for him.

i can't say too much about yee other that what i have heard from a student who practices with him. the chen tai chi guy, i don't know anything about.

Djimbe:
i am conflicted because there are some useful ideas, i still use the sensitivity i developed when rolling in jiu-jitsu. i know this might sound too CMA but i still "listen for energy" when i am rolling by that i mean i am relaxed and i am feeling for your energy. i can explain more but i don't want to sound like i am some sort of TMA tool. by no means do i believe i can 1 inch punch my way out of anything other than a (wet) paper bag :)

**Djimbe** · Posted On: 6/20/2004 7:32am

Originally posted by horus2001
speaking from my days during wing chun, i remember ken cheung saying the most dangerous kung fu people were the tai chi guys. he seemed to have a lot of influence from tai chi in his wing chun. he spoke very highly of chen tai chi, i believe he even went to chen village. he also had touched hands with one of the lineage holders from chen village, he went on to express much respect for him.

Thats a good experience to have ... too bad the Hippies ruin the Impression of Taiji , the Science is so strong , but no one wants to hear about it , they just want to hear about how "Healthy" it is , but they dont even realise that when you take away everything except the form , Its not even all that healthy , and you would be better off buying a Treadmill and doing HIIT . (Im stealing/paraphrasing this Line from Chen system Grandmaster , Chen Xiaowang himself)

i can't say too much about yee other that what i have heard from a student who practices with him. the chen tai chi guy, i don't know anything about.

Its just about Levels . I mean , there are simply obvious scientific advancements in Taiji that are not there in the Mantis systems , Southern or otherwise . Having had the opportunity quite recently to Train with GM Gin Foon Mark - most noted for his association with/short term teuteladge of Bruce Lee - there are just things in the Mantis systems that are missing , or too complex to get to a simple place because of something fundemental thats Missing on a Conceptiual or Physics level . Its interesting that oftentimes these Complexities - like in Mantis Footwork - are often applauded ... I took the "L-Stepping" of one Student and showed him where a Triangle Step combined with Long Bridge Power would allow him to get in on my FAR Superior Reach with Relative ease , and turned an Ineffective two Steps into an Effetive one , mostly just by removing the Systemic Chatechism . And in the Qigong dept , there really isnt any comparison .

Djimbe:
i am conflicted because there are some useful ideas, i still use the sensitivity i developed when rolling in jiu-jitsu. i know this might sound too CMA but i still "listen for energy" when i am rolling by that i mean i am relaxed and i am feeling for your energy. i can explain more but i don't want to sound like i am some sort of TMA tool.

Well , I think that this is whre Chi Sao is truly Inferior to Push Hands . While Chi Sao can and does Teach Intent (they both do) and it raises your level of Listening energy , which are great things , it dosent really give you a method of dealing with things other than "BE FASTER !" - and as we know , this is not always possible . What good is it to know what your Opponent is going to do without a RELIABLE way to stop it ? Chi Sao is a magnificent drill to START with , but it does NOT have anywhere to "Go" like Push Hands does ... You dont see all the variatons like Fixed/Moving/free Step , and the combinations thereof with hands/levels etc. . ALSO , while Chi Sao deals with sensitivity , its not as realistic as it could be in its dealing with the energies that an Opponent will bring to you . You never have to deal with an Opponents Mass , nor redirecting it ... and while poor Push Hands CAN turn into Sumo , under Proper Supervision ANYONE that even CONSIDERS Grappling starting in a Standing Position should spend time doing it to realise the Depth that it adds to not only your ability to read an Opponent , but of what to do that works WITHOUT FAIL once an Opponents Intent has manifested itself to you .

I also feeel that these steps are Incremental enough for any student to "get" . When looking at Chi Sao , too much faith is put on the practitioners Timing and Speed , both of which are Qualities in a fighter that are VERY hard to gain , and QUITE easy to lose , especially with age .

But hey , then there is Bagua's Rou Shou , and that blows them both away ! :D

by no means do i believe i can 1 inch punch my way out of anything other than a (wet) paper bag :)

Its wierd , some WC lines have Short Power in spades , and others seem to have been absent from class that day . But that being said , the ones that DO have it are a LOT more Realistic about it than Bruce Lee Fanboys ... Oh wel , Asia will likley just Mock , and tell them how they should all just be doing Baji anyway !

**Jolly_Roger** · Posted On: 6/20/2004 10:23am

Originally posted by Djimbe
too bad the Hippies ruin the Impression of Taiji , the Science is so strong , but no one wants to hear about it , I mean , there are simply obvious scientific advancements in Taiji that are not there in the Mantis systems , Southern or otherwise .

What do you mean?
Like flying cars, quantum laptops or a way to build cold-fusion reactors?

**horus2001** · Posted On: 6/20/2004 10:41am

my only experience with tai chi was when i trained with a wu shu guy named yul-mang jung. after about six months, i quit. i call him master makabuck, he claimed to teach every chinese martial art. one of his sons was charged with child molestation. so, you can see that my knowledge of tai chi is pretty stunted.

again though, i have to defer to what ken would say about tai chi and the respect he held for it. i think the only con he would mention is the time it took to become skilled in it.

**Djimbe** · Posted On: 6/20/2004 12:49pm

Yeah , Wushu Taji is no good for anybody . Knowing flowery movements dosent help anything , and you could learn those from a video .

again though, i have to defer to what ken would say about tai chi and the respect he held for it. i think the only con he would mention is the time it took to become skilled in it

Well , it takes about 3 years for your body to be able to even DO some of the Postures in the Chen form correctly , and to HOLD them , thats as the traditional methos are taught . I think that that time can be reduced DRAMATICALLY with modern Resistance Training Methods , but most of the Traditionalists dont want to hear about that , and think that all Weight Training just makes you Bulky and Slow , blahblahblah ... Three years is a bit of time to even be able to DO the things within the system , and then you have to start green , so I can , after a fashion , see his Point , but if you already have Experience in Yoga , or this type of movement training , then you should be ablw to learn the fighting very quickly . Look at the Photo that I put up in this thread , however - most cant even ACHIEVE that posture , much less be stable enough in it for COMBAT ! ANd it makes it so that other things which may also be Effective are easier to learn . Until someone REALLY good at Sportive Conditioning gets a LOT of Respect in the Internal world , I think even it may need to be someone chinese , the Internal crowd is going to continue to miss out on what a Boon Strength training is top their Arts . I have this argument with MY Insrtuctor all the time , but then Im 385 , if I DIDNT Lift , it would be very good for me .