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  1. falcondraco1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/01/2008 12:33am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can assure you all that Tae Kuk Mu Sul is NOT a "McDojo". I worked there as an instructor and trained there for nearly 5 years studying under Grandmaster Kim.
    As for not offering a free class, Tae Kuk Mu Sul always offers a free class so beginners can see what they're getting into. The only prerequisite is that you sign a waver (limiting our liability if something should happen, which it won't unless the participant does something stupid) and that you show up in comfortable clothes ready to work out. If you come in wearing jeans, we'll probably invite you to come back when you've got some workout pants or something.
    And as for TKMS fighters being pansies, I know some guys who've come out of that martial arts school that are the best fighters I've seen.
    Sparring of course is not full strength because we don't want to injure people or keep them out of tournaments for being too hurt. Our sparring is done with sparring gear on, but is full contact except for kicks to the head. Again, this is so that no serious damage is done. This is a martial arts SCHOOL, not an MMA arena.
    And as for Grandmaster Kim flipping burgers, yes he does, but he does that in order to supply the income he needs in order to live and keep the martial arts school open. Most of the money from the martial arts school and probably his burger place goes to the annual tournaments that the martial arts school has been hosting at U.C. Davis. And the fees for the school are comparable to what other martial arts schools ask.
    As for not training for self-defense, I can assure you that it does. Grandmaster Kim even offers community self-defense classes for women. I have participated as an assistant instructor for these classes, as well as led the regular workout classes for Tae Kuk Mu Sul.
  2. DrewSanchez is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/01/2008 1:08am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Tae Kuk Mu Sul

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My name is Andrew Sanchez and I was a student of Tae Kuk Mu Sul for five years. Three of those years were under Master Myung Lee and two under Master Klein. I studied under Grand Master Kim several times over the years and he was a very knowledgeable and disciplined instructor. I began studying when I was 13 years old and had never been involved in a martial art before. I achieved my 1st degree black belt when I was 18 years old. I am now 27 years old. The only reason I stopped attending was due to leaving for college.

    You are not required to test each month for a belt (as I saw mentioned earlier in this thread) although the testings are held in each month for the purpose of testing those students who have reached the appropriate timing and level of skill. I never felt rushed through the system nor that the instructors were only in it for the money.

    I will not attempt to compare the technical aspects of the system and will only comment on the aspects I found important to myself and let others debate/nitpick. The teachers taught me discipline, self-confidence and respect. I'm sure the same can be said about many who have found good teachers and applied themselves to a martial art. Tae Kuk Mu Sul was/is my art and my school. I am greatly indebted to the instructors there and my life has greatly benefited from the years I trained there.

    I do not enjoy seeing it called a McDojo, but, in the end, that is what the website is for. To discover McDojos. Since the original post was a question, my own personal answer is no.

    This is my impression from my time spent. I feel it was worthwhile. If anyone has further questions, please feel free to message me.
  3. Law is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/01/2008 4:14am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ/Muay Thai/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DrewSanchez
    My name is Andrew Sanchez and I was a student of Tae Kuk Mu Sul for five years. Three of those years were under Master Myung Lee and two under Master Klein. I studied under Grand Master Kim several times over the years and he was a very knowledgeable and disciplined instructor. I began studying when I was 13 years old and had never been involved in a martial art before. I achieved my 1st degree black belt when I was 18 years old. I am now 27 years old. The only reason I stopped attending was due to leaving for college.

    You are not required to test each month for a belt (as I saw mentioned earlier in this thread) although the testings are held in each month for the purpose of testing those students who have reached the appropriate timing and level of skill. I never felt rushed through the system nor that the instructors were only in it for the money.

    I will not attempt to compare the technical aspects of the system and will only comment on the aspects I found important to myself and let others debate/nitpick. The teachers taught me discipline, self-confidence and respect. I'm sure the same can be said about many who have found good teachers and applied themselves to a martial art. Tae Kuk Mu Sul was/is my art and my school. I am greatly indebted to the instructors there and my life has greatly benefited from the years I trained there.

    I do not enjoy seeing it called a McDojo, but, in the end, that is what the website is for. To discover McDojos. Since the original post was a question, my own personal answer is no.

    This is my impression from my time spent. I feel it was worthwhile. If anyone has further questions, please feel free to message me.
    What personal basis for comparison do you have, to know that itís not a McDojo?
  4. Tommy is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/01/2008 10:33am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ, San Shou

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for coming in and lending your opinion, guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by falcondraco1
    And as for TKMS fighters being pansies, I know some guys who've come out of that martial arts school that are the best fighters I've seen.
    What is your basis for judging skill? By itself, the statement is empty, so we need some frame of reference.

    Sparring of course is not full strength because we don't want to injure people or keep them out of tournaments for being too hurt. Our sparring is done with sparring gear on, but is full contact except for kicks to the head. Again, this is so that no serious damage is done. This is a martial arts SCHOOL, not an MMA arena.
    No offense, but everybody that comes from a McDojo says this.

    It is possible to spar safely with hard contact.

    How much class time do you dedicate to sparring? Not just drills, but actual free-sparring.

    Are students capable of applying all their techniques in sparring? Or is there a division between "forms techniques" versus "sparring techniques?"

    Quote Originally Posted by DrewSanchez
    The teachers taught me discipline, self-confidence and respect. I'm sure the same can be said about many who have found good teachers and applied themselves to a martial art. Tae Kuk Mu Sul was/is my art and my school. I am greatly indebted to the instructors there and my life has greatly benefited from the years I trained there.
    I'm glad that you've enjoyed it. However, the question is not whether Tae Kuk Mu Sul is a rewarding hobby, but whether it can be considered an effective fighting school.

    So far you've stated that TKMS is not a McDojo, but no arguments explaining your reasoning.
  5. falcondraco1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/02/2008 1:18pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Tae Kuk Mu Sul - NOT A MCDOJO

    Look, you guys make wild accusations without anything to back them up with, and then try and shut down our arguments because they're based on personal experience with actually being in the martial art.

    So that makes you guys nothing more than a bunch of wanna-be-macho dicks.
  6. DrewSanchez is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/02/2008 3:55pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Tae Kuk Mu Sul

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To Tommy,
    I'm sorry if I was not clear in my post. I feel no need to argue. Conveying the effectiveness of a fighting school through talking is rather like reading about sex. It might be fun but can never convey the totality of the experience. My words don't matter in the long run. If you wish to find out for sure, take a class yourself. Talk to the teachers there yourself. No one's opinion matters except your own. My goal here was only to say my piece in response to the original question as I found the post come up through a brief internet search. I've said what I thought and thats all I can offer through an internet forum.

    To Falcondraco1,
    Easy my friend. A website like this is geared towards provoking strong responses and emotions. Don't let anyone else get to you. Truth is not found on an internet forum. Keep training hard, stay humble, focus on whats right for you and let the others debate until they are blue in the face. If you see Master Klein or Master Kim around, tell them I said Hi!
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/02/2008 3:59pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DrewSanchez
    Truth is not found on an internet forum.
    Actually, yes, it can and has been found on bullshido.

    Just off the top of my head, we have outed two sexual predators and found their records.
  8. DrewSanchez is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/02/2008 5:07pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Tae Kuk Mu Sul

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just off the top of my head, we have outed two sexual predators and found their records.
    I was thinking more along the lines about the difference between experience and words, but point taken fellow Dolemite fan. :thumbsup:
    Last edited by DrewSanchez; 12/02/2008 5:19pm at .
  9. Miguksaram is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/03/2008 10:23am

    supporting member
     Style: Shorei-ryu & Kumdo & TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    Actually, yes, it can and has been found on bullshido.

    Just off the top of my head, we have outed two sexual predators and found their records.
    Not to mention several frauds and rip off artists.
    Jeremy M. Talbott

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
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    "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
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    My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


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  10. Tommy is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/03/2008 12:30pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ, San Shou

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by falcondraco1
    Look, you guys make wild accusations without anything to back them up with, and then try and shut down our arguments because they're based on personal experience with actually being in the martial art.

    So that makes you guys nothing more than a bunch of wanna-be-macho dicks.
    Valid concerns aren't the same as wild accusations. Based on the information we've received (and I have personal experience with your art), the majority here feel it is not an effective fighting system. Still, when you came here, we gave you the benefit of the doubt and asked simple questions that would allow you to change our minds. Since you blew up for no reason, that doesn't reflect well on you or your school.

    The entire purpose of Bullshido is to ask these questions and get some answers.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrewSanchez
    To Tommy,
    I'm sorry if I was not clear in my post. I feel no need to argue. Conveying the effectiveness of a fighting school through talking is rather like reading about sex. It might be fun but can never convey the totality of the experience. My words don't matter in the long run. If you wish to find out for sure, take a class yourself. Talk to the teachers there yourself. No one's opinion matters except your own. My goal here was only to say my piece in response to the original question as I found the post come up through a brief internet search. I've said what I thought and thats all I can offer through an internet forum.
    I've seen the classes, known some of the students, and even judged them in competition. Master Kim even brought me a burger. I think he's a nice guy - I just don't think his students can fight very well, based on what I've seen. If you read back a few pages in the thread, you'll see my previous posts.

    While you're correct that you can't completely convey the experience through words, there's still much you could tell us that would help us understand if it is a good fighting school. Specifically, the questions I asked in my last post.

    Lastly, Bullshido members sometimes get together to spar. Check the "Throwdowns" forum. If you attend the Sacramento Throwdowns, you would have a great opportunity to prove your point. Even if you're not an expert, it's a good idea.
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