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  1. #21
    Vargas's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Once again, if you want to be a 'complete' fighter (ie not getting whipped because you have an Achilles heel), then take a sabbatical from the karate and go to that BJJ place down the road. If you still want to practice your takedowns and sprawls with your wrestler buddy, great. However, BJJ is almost all about submissions and that's what most of ground-fighting consists of. If, like you say, you're 100% confident in your art, then don't go to the BJJ place, don't learn submissions and don't be surprised at what happens if you ever roll with a 'real deal' ground fighter.

    It sounds like you think you have a pretty good stand-up game, so what's keeping you from cross-training? I've sparred with a lot of different guys with an assortment of backgrounds. I've fought BJJ guys, wrestlers, Olympic-level TKD guys, pro kickboxers, NHB fighters, you name it. Believe me, all styles (Eastern and Western) have flaws. I don't give a **** if the teacher is 70 years old with an 8th degree black belt or is the head wrestling coach at Iowa State, he will not make you a complete fighter all on his own. It's all up to you, though, so trust your instincts and do what you think is right.
    "I had once talked to Billy Conn, the boxer, about professionals versus amateurs - specifically street fighters. One had always heard rumors of champions being taken out by back-alley fighters. Conn was scornful. "Aw, it's like hitting a girl," he said. "They're nothing."


    - George Plimpton
    "Shadow Box"

  2. #22
    OFFICIAL Mayor of Cwcville supporting member
    Boyd's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I never said I was a "complete fighter" or that I had anything against crosstraining. When I say I'm 100% confident in my art, it's because I know that what I'm doing can be applied effectively in real life, not that I believe it's the answer to everything. Trust me here, if I had the time and resources, I'd be doing a hell of a lot more than just karate.
    I believe knowing how to fight standing is a more important than knowing how to fight on the ground for one reason: while it is true that most fights go to the ground, ALL START STANDING UP. What you do while standing will determine whether or not your fight will go to the ground (keep in mind that I'm referring to real-life, where the odds of a guy shooting in for a double-leg followed by a triangle choke are substantially less than a guy just trying to punch me in the head). Not that I have anything but the greatest respect for BJJ, but I just think that being able to fight standing is more important.
    So what's stopping me from crosstraining like a mofo? I'll tell you what. It's a soul-destroying job that consumes my every moment of free time, both on school days and "days off". The only days I've managed to secure off are Tuesdays and Thursdays, for Karate. So flexibility isn't much of an option.
    Captain's Log: Just a little update for all my TRUE and HONEST friends out there:

    1) I am STRAIGHT! I am STRAIGHT! Get it through your thick skulls, numbskulls!

    2) My name is not Ian Brandon Something.

    3) Kacey is coming with me now. I have stolen her from the other Christian Weston Chandler.

    REMINDER: I am still the one and only true creator of sonichu and rosechu electric hedgehog pokemon

  3. #23
    Vargas's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, a lot of guys I know have those kind of jobs that keep them out of the dojo. So many dojos, so little time. . .

    It's funny, my training is coming from the opposite direction. I'm a pretty good ground guy, but my stand-up needs a lot of work. I tell you what, you quit your shitty job, I convince my wife to support my training addiction and we both move to Canada and live off the government dole while training full-time. Welfare was made for dudes like us!
    "I had once talked to Billy Conn, the boxer, about professionals versus amateurs - specifically street fighters. One had always heard rumors of champions being taken out by back-alley fighters. Conn was scornful. "Aw, it's like hitting a girl," he said. "They're nothing."


    - George Plimpton
    "Shadow Box"

  4. #24
    Vargas's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One caveat to your reasoning: You may not always be able to control how a fight starts, but you damn sure want to have some control over how it ends. I think you're on the right track, though, so keep it up and good luck.
    "I had once talked to Billy Conn, the boxer, about professionals versus amateurs - specifically street fighters. One had always heard rumors of champions being taken out by back-alley fighters. Conn was scornful. "Aw, it's like hitting a girl," he said. "They're nothing."


    - George Plimpton
    "Shadow Box"

  5. #25

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    which style of karate do you do?
    "Training = pain." - I said that.

    PizDoff when drunk: "I'm actually MOST pissed that my target for the evening got drink...then I gave her my Bullshido Canada hoodie like a gentleman because she was outside with not much on...did I mention she barfed twice when I got our jackets...steaming barf is kinda fascinating..." - PizDoff.

  6. #26
    patfromlogan's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Forget karate, it's just a series of conditioned reflexes that will allow any experienced technical fighter to make you 'zig when you shoulda zagged.'"

    Gee, Dan, thanks for making it clear that 30+ years of karate were a complete waste of time. Better tell it to my mma sparring partner who wore a black eye last month from my heel - in Japanese karate these techniques are known as NEWAZA (lying-down movements) and the object is to use karate type techniques in response to grappling. While not often the focus of study, styles such as Kyokushin incorporate these techniques. Sport karate ignores them, but we know what sport karate is and isn't.

    My partner is from greco-roman background and when we restrict the game to those rules (well, we always use chokes) he almost always beats me.
    When we allow strikes, it is a different game. He has also learned what he calls "mean" techniques from me like wrist and finger control and that if he leaves most any limb of mine open, he gets hit, and i must admit i've learned alot about how a fast strong grappler can submit me.

    "A lot of people spend a lot of time arguing about what style is better. This is a complete waste of time." Oyama
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez

  7. #27
    OFFICIAL Mayor of Cwcville supporting member
    Boyd's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Isshin-Ryu, Blade Windu.
    Captain's Log: Just a little update for all my TRUE and HONEST friends out there:

    1) I am STRAIGHT! I am STRAIGHT! Get it through your thick skulls, numbskulls!

    2) My name is not Ian Brandon Something.

    3) Kacey is coming with me now. I have stolen her from the other Christian Weston Chandler.

    REMINDER: I am still the one and only true creator of sonichu and rosechu electric hedgehog pokemon

  8. #28
    patfromlogan's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    come on dan, it's been awhile, learn to edit so i don't have to read seven posts in a row and reply, ok, i know, dan is a big doo doo! Now you are mad, or as the morons say, now your mad, and to (sic) chicken to reply to my sharp as a razor post!!

    By the way, what (starting with most recent) competitions have you been in? My last was sr. men's in the Utah Open. Took 3rd in kata and it was way harder than winning the little tourney before, 1st kata, not much in kumite.

    "A lot of people spend a lot of time arguing about what style is better. This is a complete waste of time." Oyama
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez

  9. #29
    patfromlogan's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    by the way, i forgot to mention Oyama was shodan in Judo.

    "A lot of people spend a lot of time arguing about what style is better. This is a complete waste of time." Oyama
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez

  10. #30

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Endurance is a huge part of the ground game. Learn to use your weight to make him tired, rather thatn muscles.

    Complete newbies at wrestling tend to try to hard. You need to see where you can just lean on him or if your being leaned ON, when you can relax and not waste energy in the wrong places.

    I don't know how to make my point clear . . .hm.

    Basically, before you HEAVE to get him off you. Do you have leverage or not? There's a lot of times when you will be straining with every muscle in your body but really only your legs need to be working,or your legs maybe could be limp while it's your waist at work. Good grapplers are often incredibly relaxed.
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGaYD_wcaIg

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Uepo9ahg-M

    Bah!!! Puny Humans.



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