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  1. Wyllie is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/31/2004 10:10pm


     Style: Mix

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Luta Livre - BJJ's Evil Twin

    Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu stylists and Luta Livre fighters have had a long standing rivalry that dates back to the days when the legendary Helio Gracie was a young man. Yet you never hear much about this fighting style perhaps due to the popularity of Jiu-Jitsu in the U.S.

    Jiu-Jitsu has overshadowed this art and it is viewed by many as secondary to BJJ. Not necessarily because it is secondary, but because it has not seen the same degree of success in the states.

    Luta Livre is a hybrid martial art that has been practiced in Brazil since the late 1920's. It began as a type of no holds barred fighting that eventually combined certain aspects of Jiu-Jitsu and striking to form a single style. You might consider it a type of mixed martial art in its own right.

    Translated into English, Luta Livre means "Free Fighting" and is indeed free in that a fighter uses no gear or excess clothing (such as a kimono) that would hinder you from fighting effectively. Luta Livre incorporates certain aspects of BJJ in its groundfighting techniques but tends to focus more on proper striking such as that which can be found in boxing and Muay Thai. If comparing this type of fighting with Jiu-Jitsu, you might say that it is Jiu-Jitsu without the Gi with more focus on striking.

    So if it's Jiu-Jitsu without the Gi, why is there such a rivalry between Luta Livre fighters and Jiu-Jitsu fighters?

    Fabio Gurgel, a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt, once said, "Jiu-Jitsu has a lot of students in Brazil and Luta Livre tries to do the same thing as jiu-jitsu but without the gi. So there is like a type of competition between the two styles in Brazil."

    The tension between the two camps has existed since the 1950's. This rivalry continues to this day and in 1997 during a promotion called "Pentagon Combat" in Brazil where Renzo Gracie (Jiu-Jitsu) was scheduled to fight against Eugenio Tadeau (Luta Livre), a fight broke out. During the event, over 100 Luta Livre fighters invaded the event without paying and begin to crowd the ring. It turned even worse as they eventually climbed into the outer structure, causing it to collapse.

    A riot ensued and somebody even fired a gun at one of the attendees. Hardly what you would call friendly "competition" as Fabio Gurgel suggested. From an outsiders perspective, it would seem that these guys really hate each other.

    Many BJJ stylists claim that the whole feud between the two styles began because of the classism that is present in Brazil to this day. The poor kids (Luta Livre) despised the rich kids (Jiu-Jitsu) in what can only be described as a Brazilian version of the Outsiders.

    And just like the Outsiders, the rumbling began in the 1950's as gangs (schools) begin calling each other out. Like a bad Martial Arts movie where Karate practitioners claim their style is better than Kung Fu, Luta Livre fighters began to challenge Jiu-Jitsu guys and vice versa. Ever since then, whenever the two groups meet in a public place and there is tension and fights will often break out.

    A few Luta Livre stylists have made a name for themselves because of who they have fought. Hugo Duarte is one of the most recognized Luta fighters because of his famous fight on the beach with Rickson Gracie. The original footage can be viewed on the "Gracie in Action" tape series for those interested. (Rickson won in case you are wondering)

    Marco Ruas, originally a Luta Livre fighter, has separated himself somewhat from this rivalry by calling his style "Ruas Vale Tudo." He claims to have a unique style that is slightly different from regular luta livre perhaps because of the crosstraining factor.

    Many Brazilian fighters have come to the United States and claim the grudge does not exist between these two styles. As of 2002, I have not heard of any fights breaking out in the USA due to BJJ/Luta Livre rivalry. But I continue to hear stories about fights that still happen in Brazil.
    Last edited by Wyllie; 5/31/2004 10:26pm at .
  2. Punisher is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/31/2004 10:14pm

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     Style: Five Animal Fighting

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wyllie,

    Did you write this? If so, good job. If not, you should at least give the author credit.
  3. Wyllie is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/31/2004 10:24pm


     Style: Mix

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Punisher
    Wyllie,

    Did you write this? If so, good job. If not, you should at least give the author credit.
    No. I just copied it from another thread, where Owen posted it, but I am almost sure he didn't write it either.

    Anyway, I have some very interesting articles about Luta Livre, but most of them are written in Portuguese.

    If you are interested, let me know.
  4. DuckofDeath is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2004 1:21am


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wyllie,

    Are you saying that Vale Tudo is nothing more than the name Marco Ruas gave to his brand of Luta Livre? That there were no Vale Tudo guys running around in Brazil prior to Marco Ruas, only Luta Livre guys?

    I really hope you can abstract the Portuguese material and post it for us, or translate it if the articles aren't too long. If you can organize the material into some kind of thematic or chronological order, it would make a great thread in the Martial Arts History section.
  5. Blad3 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2004 1:27am

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     Style: Submission Wrestling.

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Interesting. I'd like to see more.

    However I thought LL had many matches with BJJ in the ring, loosing a majority, so therefore BJJ has alway been considered better...
    "Training = pain." - I said that.

    PizDoff when drunk: "I'm actually MOST pissed that my target for the evening got drink...then I gave her my Bullshido Canada hoodie like a gentleman because she was outside with not much on...did I mention she barfed twice when I got our jackets...steaming barf is kinda fascinating..." - PizDoff.
  6. Deadpan Scientist is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2004 1:28am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Marco Ruas, originally a Luta Livre fighter, has separated himself somewhat from this rivalry by calling his style "Ruas Vale Tudo."
  7. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/01/2004 3:41am

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Are you saying that Vale Tudo is nothing more than the name Marco Ruas gave to his brand of Luta Livre? That there were no Vale Tudo guys running around in Brazil prior to Marco Ruas, only Luta Livre guys?
    No what he is saying is Ruas took a new name to seperate himself form the other art. VT was the name of the events (or the rule set) in which they fought.

    Anyway, I have some very interesting articles about Luta Livre, but most of them are written in Portuguese.
    Would love to see them. post away.(thats what translating software is for.:D)


    There are some LL guys here but I don't know much about them. I met a couple at somne tournaments but thats about it.
    ______
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  8. MUT is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/01/2004 3:49am

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     Style: MuayThai,Igo Ryu Jiujitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah it'd be mad if you posted them.
  9. Noodlepower is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/01/2004 4:07am

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i think that article was in 'the gracie way' book..
    Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. That's relativity.
    -Albert Einstein
  10. Te No Kage! is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/01/2004 5:17am

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     Style: BJJ/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks Wyllie, I've never even heard of Luta Livre, I wonder why it hasn't gotten notoriety in the US, do we even have anybody on this site that practices this MA?
    "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -A. Lincoln

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