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  1. ChrisOdell is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/11/2005 1:27pm

    supporting member
     Style: Jits

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    i mentioned this in another thread but...

    So I was talking to my wife after reading this thread and I remembered that she mention going to some school that wanted an insane amount of $ to train her.

    She told me the whole story this time and it was nearly identical to bunnyyip's, only they wanted 10,000 from her for a year of training!!!!! These guys must be taken out of the MA scene, or at least out of my town! Jerks.
  2. PunkBoy is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2005 11:24pm


     Style: Taekwondo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow, I wish I read this thread before. What an amazing story!
  3. BigDickRich is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/15/2005 12:07am


     Style: Bok Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    We all practice bullshido!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Yo Yo
    I read it all, you seem to be saying that the people at that school's style is worthless, and that they charge money for it. I missed the part where you put your skills to the test against their skilled practioners. I'll check out those other threads later.
    I was wondering the same thing. But, nonetheless, bunyip is actually a good guy whom I've met, personally. While I don't necessaritly agree with the point of views stated here, I try to keep it in mind when I train.

    I believe that one can train and be effective without sparring. There is a difference between the art and the defense portions of a system. If sparring was so ideal, then why do we all poke fun at TKD people. We even hold boxing to a high regard. But, practitioners aren't necessarily good street fighters.

    But, I think MMA, BJJ, TKD, Kenpo/Bok-Fu, JKD and all that crap is absolute bullshit when you got to get down and fight. It all falls to **** when you are getting pounded by multiple attackers or jumped from behind. That's the brutal, honest truth. Defend it all you want but we all practice bullshido.

    If you want to be in the baddest martial art in the world, go get in your car or on the buss or walk to that neighborhood near you and start fighting. Nothing is more true to form than fighting for your life. Because in the dojo, none of us fight like that.

    And hey, it's free and there are no contracts or pushy sales people.
  4. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    8/15/2005 2:27am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BigDickRich
    I was wondering the same thing. But, nonetheless, bunyip is actually a good guy whom I've met, personally. While I don't necessaritly agree with the point of views stated here, I try to keep it in mind when I train.

    I believe that one can train and be effective without sparring. There is a difference between the art and the defense portions of a system. If sparring was so ideal, then why do we all poke fun at TKD people. We even hold boxing to a high regard. But, practitioners aren't necessarily good street fighters.

    But, I think MMA, BJJ, TKD, Kenpo/Bok-Fu, JKD and all that crap is absolute bullshit when you got to get down and fight. It all falls to **** when you are getting pounded by multiple attackers or jumped from behind. That's the brutal, honest truth. Defend it all you want but we all practice bullshido.

    If you want to be in the baddest martial art in the world, go get in your car or on the buss or walk to that neighborhood near you and start fighting. Nothing is more true to form than fighting for your life. Because in the dojo, none of us fight like that.

    And hey, it's free and there are no contracts or pushy sales people.
    Never heard that before.

    Do you honestly believe, in your heart, that every possible avenue of martial training is helpless in the face of "really fighting?"

    That argument is trite, and aging badly.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  5. BigDickRich is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/15/2005 4:39am


     Style: Bok Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    all this hating

    Trite? Sure, and therefore must contain some modicum of truth. Maybe just not the truth you believe in.

    To get to the point, no person really wants to believe that they are not learning the be-all-end-all art or style or whatever. We all believe that there is some way all schools should be run or what is too much money or what art is better or what way to train is better. It's easy to poke fun at and make light of other styles and schools. But each school can learn from the others.

    Everyone gives me crap for going to West Wind. Good. It seems to me that everyone wants me to prove how good (or terrible) the school is. Yet, without knowing this, the school is ripped by outsiders who can really only base their opinions on the musings of others. That's what this thread is about. This whole site is everyone hating on everybody else.

    I've busted my ass for too many years to let someone belittle what I do because it doesn't suit thier needs. Are there problems in the school? **** yes. I wish I had the power to fix them. Of course, your school does, too. They may be little problems like old equipment or being late on the phone bill. My school seems to have problems in several areas. It doesn't concern me too much. My school is nearly 40 years old. I trust it will be around for a few more years. Even if it's in someone's tool shed.

    I don't discount anybody's art. Does it really "work"? That's up to you. I respect what you do because you have a passion for it and it and you enjoy it. I was at the throwdown for an hour or so and learned a lot from just standing there. I might learn more next time by actually rolling. I gained a greater respect for the people there. They like what they do. And they're having fun. Throwdowns are the most redeeming part of this site. It sure beats the divisiveness lingering in the threads.
    Last edited by BigDickRich; 8/17/2005 9:47am at .
  6. wildwills is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/17/2005 8:16am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TaeBo_Master
    Best line ever: My REAL school was about to start.
    Ditto.
  7. bunyip is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/18/2005 2:41am

    hall of fame
     Style: jits with hits

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is going to be short because I'm about to go to sleep, and because these points have been addressed hundreds and hundreds of times already. You're not bringing any new arguments to the table that we aren't seriously sick of hearing and dismissing.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDickRich
    I believe that one can train and be effective without sparring. There is a difference between the art and the defense portions of a system.
    No, and no. Without exception, every single boxing, wrestling, and Muay Thai school is heavily sparring-oriented because practicing fighting is how you become a good fighter.


    Quote Originally Posted by BigDickRich
    If sparring was so ideal, then why do we all poke fun at TKD people. We even hold boxing to a high regard. But, practitioners aren't necessarily good street fighters.
    We poke fun at TKD people who spar with ridiculously restrictive point-sparring rules. There are exceptions, such as ONE OF THE MODERATORS ON THIS FORUM. Boxing is held in high regard because it is a goddamn effective martial art. A good boxer would be a seriously good street fighter. If you think otherwise, you're fooling yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDickRich
    But, I think MMA, BJJ, TKD, Kenpo/Bok-Fu, JKD and all that crap is absolute bullshit when you got to get down and fight. It all falls to **** when you are getting pounded by multiple attackers or jumped from behind.
    Everyone here is so sick of this argument. How is your non-sparring art that can't even defend itself against a single fighter under restrictive rules suddenly going to become useful in a multiple attacker situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDickRich
    Nothing is more true to form than fighting for your life. Because in the dojo, none of us fight like that.
    But hard sparring is a whole hell of lot closer than doing forms.

    Now read these articles: Street vs. Sport
    "I'm offering straight punch, kick while downed to the ribs or head, and of course- the german suplex...which is one suplex quickly followed by another." - Guerilla Fists

    Matt Thornton explains "aliveness": http://www.bullshido.com/videos/sbg2.wmv

    West Wind Karate / West Wind Bok Fu / West Wind Kung Fu thread
    West Wind Karate / West Wind Bok Fu / West Wind Kung Fu archive thread
    (experiment to see if I can boost the thread's Google rank)

  8. BigDickRich is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2005 6:09am


     Style: Bok Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    My final drunken ramble about nothing.

    I'm getting quite tired of the argument as well. It's a vicious circle that is as great as the Mac vs. PC debates. We can make any argument and nobody's mind really changes too much. With me you're sorta preaching to the choir. I agree that more sparring and realistic traing is effective. But it's not everything. And I kinda enjoy playing devil's advocate. I just wish I was more convincing.

    My final argument is as follows. Training for endurance can have a greater effect than not training at all. This goes without saying. I am not saying that I won't have my ass handed to me by a well trained martial artist that has trained and sparred, but my odds are much greater than if I just sat on my couch all day.

    The things I read from bunyip's link support the idea. Of course they all say you'd be even better if you sparred.

    In closing, it's been a hoot arguing with you guys, but nothing is accomplished by me writing drunken posts at 4am. However, there was a great question posed. Why hasn't anyone challenged any of the West Wind instructors to a fight if they teach bullshido and can't fight? As far as I am concerned, this whole thread is moot until that is done. I'd quit that place immediately if that happened.

    I'm done with this thread.
  9. bunyip is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/19/2005 3:13am

    hall of fame
     Style: jits with hits

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BigDickRich
    Why hasn't anyone challenged any of the West Wind instructors to a fight if they teach bullshido and can't fight?
    1) Teaching bullshido and lack of fighting ability are not synonymous. I'm not saying the teachers can't fight, I'm saying their students can't fight. And I'm saying that's the teachers' fault.

    2) I have less than three years of martial arts experience. I am open for a friendly sparring session with a West Wind student of comparable experience any time you can set one up. In fact, the more students, the better. Can you get permission for me to come to a group class and spar a bunch of the students? I'd like to bring a video camera, too, please.

    3) I specifically requested that you come and spar at the throwdown. I requested that you bring friends from West Wind to come and spar at the throwdown. Multiple flyers on multiple occations for this and past throwdowns have been posted outside West Wind, but they're taken down by the next morning, and often within a couple hours.

    FIND ME SOME WEST WIND STUDENTS WHO WILL FIGHT and I will set it up.
    Last edited by bunyip; 8/19/2005 3:18am at .
    "I'm offering straight punch, kick while downed to the ribs or head, and of course- the german suplex...which is one suplex quickly followed by another." - Guerilla Fists

    Matt Thornton explains "aliveness": http://www.bullshido.com/videos/sbg2.wmv

    West Wind Karate / West Wind Bok Fu / West Wind Kung Fu thread
    West Wind Karate / West Wind Bok Fu / West Wind Kung Fu archive thread
    (experiment to see if I can boost the thread's Google rank)

  10. DeviantBK is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/20/2006 11:48pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    DONT WASTE YOUR TIME

    Quote Originally Posted by bunyip
    1) Teaching bullshido and lack of fighting ability are not synonymous. I'm not saying the teachers can't fight, I'm saying their students can't fight. And I'm saying that's the teachers' fault.

    2) I have less than three years of martial arts experience. I am open for a friendly sparring session with a West Wind student of comparable experience any time you can set one up. In fact, the more students, the better. Can you get permission for me to come to a group class and spar a bunch of the students? I'd like to bring a video camera, too, please.

    3) I specifically requested that you come and spar at the throwdown. I requested that you bring friends from West Wind to come and spar at the throwdown. Multiple flyers on multiple occations for this and past throwdowns have been posted outside West Wind, but they're taken down by the next morning, and often within a couple hours.

    FIND ME SOME WEST WIND STUDENTS WHO WILL FIGHT and I will set it up.
    Seriously... i dont think any of the teachers will answer the CHALLENGE

    a) because they are scared
    b) because they think they dont have to prove to you (aka they are scared)
    c) they think the'll hurt you because they use their skills as killing techniques (aka they are scared)

    trust me... ive trained their and almost gotten my black belt... they use to be good... but i dont know if there are any good teachers anymore... i use to have top teachers and i left with horrible knockoffs... id get different teachers a week... them and their so called private lessons... they dont even have open tourneys its all within the school.... sad really...
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