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  1. #1

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    When is Self-Defense Justifiable?

    For years, I've wanted to publish an infographic , but I've putting it off until today. Now, I want to explore the topic of self-defense, violence b/c I lost a friend in 2003 to a stabbing on the steps of my former high school. Any thoughts on the use of violence is welcome. Source:

    http://mitchelltactical.com/2017/11/06/self-defense-justifiable-violence-ok/
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  2. #2

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    Hmm, the upload made it grainy. It's much more viewable on link

  3. #3

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    Can I ask you a question? What do you train and compete in?
    I only ask this because there are a number of assumptions in your article that don't seem to match up to reality.

    Also, have you ever killed or maimed anyone? In self defense or otherwise?

    Your article seems to be written from the perspective of someone who is both trying to imitate an expert in violent conflict and seems to be avoiding it altogether.

    You cannot have it both ways.

    To be clear, a number of the people on this site, including myself, either have or regularly still do, engage in violence of various sorts. Sometimes social, sometimes asocial, and in reading your article the only thing that I could discern was that you... don't do that.

    For example, you stated:
    <quote>Violence Is About Destruction

    Please note that I’m not talking about sports violence where there are a set of UFC-styled rules, a ring, a code of sportsmanship, a ref and where the goal is COMPETITION. If you tap out from an arm-bar, you get to go home.

    Real-life violence doesn’t look like choreographed art. It doesn’t look like a martial arts movie. Real-life self-defense isn’t about give-and-take, it’s not a 15-minute brawl.

    It’s often one-sided, quick, sometimes bloodless. Just watch prison or street footage and not The Matrix movies.

    The goal of real-life violence is to cause debilitating injury. Not just black and blue bruises. If x-rayed, organs, bones, joints and/or nerves have been ruptured, broken or destroyed.

    The (phoney) tough guys with puffy chests I come across, are usually the most squeamish when talking about maiming, crippling or even the death of an adversary.
    </quote>
    None of that has much basis in the reality that I share.
    Most people I know that are squeamish about hurting others are that way because they have done so before or seen it done and are not fucking psychopaths, they know well the cost of violence.

    You also said:
    <quote> “But if we just give them what they want, they’ll leave us alone!”

    Documented case: a young urban professional was approached by 2 thugs at night in USA. He gave them his watch, wallet and phone and they left.

    This is where society breathes a collective sigh of relief because the professional did everything society expected him to do.

    However, the 2 thieves came back and stabbed the man to death. He was overheard by witnesses saying “But I gave you everything!” in a pool of his own blood.

    We try to give his case meaning because we’re still looking at it through our default social lenses.

    A criminal sociopath doesn’t have proper socialization. He doesn’t have your morals, your sense of right or wrong.

    Violence is ASOCIAL– it has nothing to do with communication. Swear words, posturing, do not count (however, they may be indicators of oncoming violence).

    When violence begins, all communication has gone out the window and you have 5 critical seconds to react, as above, when the 2 criminals returned.

    </quote>
    More nonsense. First of all, with regards to your "documented case", Who? What? When? Where?
    Second of all, violence can be both social and asocial. See getting jumped in or out of a gang for an example of non-sporting social violence.
    Third of all, most criminals are not sociopaths. Extreme narcissism is closer to the correct diagnosis, but it is still incomplete.
    Fourth of all, violence IS a form of communication, either to the person you are harming or to whoever is left alive. Sometimes the message is a simple "I want/wanted x dead." but most of the time it is more complex than that.
    And how do you know you have 5 whole seconds to act? 5 seconds is a LONG GORRAM TIME in a weapons fight.

    Then there is this:
    <quote>
    Don’t Use Violence to Resolve Social Conflict

    On the other hand, using violence to resolve social conflict is akin to using dynamite to open your car door.

    Pointless.

    A simple solution is to be nice to each other. It’s not worth killing a man because he said you looked fat in skinny jeans (not to mention the legal repercussions).

    If you put your hands on a person, he or she may have medical conditions that you don’t know about. A big, muscular guy may have a heart murmur like someone I personally know. If you knock a guy to the ground, he may die impacting his head from a birth defect.

    Be prepared to go all the way if you place your hands on someone and for good reason.

    Instances where you feel the need to act superior or teach the other person a lesson can all be avoided.

    The next time someone insults you or your girlfriend, spills your drink at the bar, cuts you off in traffic or you have an argument with a co-worker or a cheating spouse, remember you have the option of walking away.

    Choose to walk away.

    “Violence is rarely the answer…but when it is, it’s the only answer.”
    </quote>
    Ok, let's start with all the reasons that first statement about not using violence to resolve social conflict is wrong.
    1. Corrective action can often be administered in a violent way that is much more effective than the alternatives.
    2. Violence provides clear communication about what is and is not acceptable behavior.
    3. Spanking your kids is a form of social violence.
    4. Educational beat downs are a common use of social violence in prison and other violent places to avoid the need to escalate to deadly force.
    5. This list could continue for a while, but I am gonna move on.

    Next, you say some things that are NOT bs about letting small social faux pas pass without incident, but then there is this nonsense to end it up:
    “Violence is rarely the answer…but when it is, it’s the only answer.”

    Without supporting context, which you fail to provide in this article, this quote, from someone much more qualified than you, is as much BS as the rest of this article.

  4. #4

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also, can someone fix my misunderstanding of IMG code to get those quotes right?

  5. #5
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchelltactica View Post
    For years, I've wanted to publish an infographic , but I've putting it off until today. Now, I want to explore the topic of self-defense, violence b/c I lost a friend in 2003 to a stabbing on the steps of my former high school. Any thoughts on the use of violence is welcome. Source:

    http://mitchelltactical.com/2017/11/...e-violence-ok/
    You post one more link to your TactiFool website and I am banning you for spam. Host your images on IMGUR or some other hosting site.

    Welcome to Bullshido.
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    “I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Slamming the man in the bottom position from time to time keeps everybody on their toes and discourages butt scooting stupidity.

  6. #6
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AcerTempest View Post
    Also, can someone fix my misunderstanding of IMG code to get those quotes right?
    Quote posts and see how it is structured. You can nest quotes
    quote
    quote
    and all kinds of cool stuff. The Go advanced function has buttons you can use for all kinds of tags after highlighting your text.
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    “I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Slamming the man in the bottom position from time to time keeps everybody on their toes and discourages butt scooting stupidity.

  7. #7
    submessenger's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AcerTempest View Post
    Also, can someone fix my misunderstanding of IMG code to get those quotes right?
    The site uses BBCode, which is the de-facto forum standard for markup. Basics on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBCode

  8. #8

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the reply. I'm having a hard time your response from the formatting code. I see I ruffled some feathers. Please note, I've also gotten pacifist-type responses from the other side of the spectrum in saying not to do anything at all.

    - Yes, I agree, violence can be either social, asocial and as well, as anti-social. I was trying to illustrate the responses used in asocial wouldn't be appropriate in social situations and vice-versa--without going into too much terminology, details for first-time readers.

    Clearly, you are experienced so this articles doesn't relate to you. Social violence can be a form of communication, but asocial is completely devoid of it.

    - I disagree with you about using violence to solve problems in the context of daily, social life and society. Examples provided are suffice, e.g. somebody spills your drink

    - My sources, cases, methodology, quote: Tim Larkin, Target-Focus Training

    - You're right, properly socialized people and people who know the cost of violence are squeamish to violence. Some more than others, which I was trying to illustrate.

  9. #9

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    - I wouldn't want to find out the hard way, as above, if the attacker is a criminal sociopath is out for blood and or if they are involved in some kind of narcissism. Dependent on context, if the intent is there, then it would be appropriate to act with justifiable lethal force. 4% of the world is sociopathic (Google), I don't have the time, ability to discern if they are part of that 4%.

  10. #10
    Kovacs's Avatar
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    When is self-defence justified?

    Look up the self-defence laws local to your area or country. Use them as an ROE as you go about your daily life and enjoy yourself.
    Ne Obliviscaris

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