Page 2 of 3 First 123 Last
  1. #11

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Maryland, USA
    Posts
    598
    Style
    Yagyu Shinkage Ryu
    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    Not my fault none of you morally and ethically unbound fuckers didn't quote it first.

    *edit*
    Literally half my posts are quoting fuckers before they can edit their fuckery.
    So that means you quote W Rabbit /Pship a lot, right?

  2. #12

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    74
    Style
    Judo
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    (,""$

  3. #13

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    74
    Style
    Judo
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Falenay View Post
    (,""$
    Guess this was my mobile not locking the screen correctly. Sorry for that ;)

    Incidentally, I could thereby reformulate the immensely important content of the OP...

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    288
    Style
    Karate
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I may be a heretic on Bullshido on a lot of popular topics.., but I have opinions based upon other experiences. I met a body guard and security professional from South Korea and worked with him for a week almost a decade ago. He was a 5th degree black belt in Taekwondo and could break bricks with his hands. His peer group advised me not to spar with him, because if he made a mistake and hit me too hard I could have internal bleeding. They were not teasing me; their tone was deliberate and they were insistent.

    I don't doubt people think Taekwondo is at Mcdojo quality in most places, because this happens when something is broadly disseminated. It happened with Aikido and Karate. It is a popular Bullshido discussion for a lot of martial arts. We end up calling out many elements of truth, but it may not be the whole truth within a larger context. Some training can be effective at a narrow, highly intense level for the few who are going to use it in expected life threatening conflict, but for the broad masses quality may vary.

    I think about the Soviets (historical modeling can be useful). For their army personal combat instructors, they were ruthlessly effective, but for an army of mass (most Soviet soldiers were conscripts on a two year rotation cycle), how effective were rank and file soldiers? It would depend upon their individual characteristics (physical ability and their individual level of physical courage) combined with the quality of their physical training instructor. I would expect the average guy would be average, but what was their ability compared to western armies in the same category? Would they have been better than western personnel because the western troop training plan did not have consistent martial arts training, but the Soviet troop training plan did?

    If the average Soviet guy was even slightly better than his western counterpart because of that limited repetitive training would we be speaking of the Soviet system in glowing terms today? Probably. Lots of things grow larger or smaller over time. Few things keep their accurate value within context. Look at current events -- we can see the historical narrative morphing in front of us as we move down the river of time. The same is for how we understand fighting arts.

    When talking about effectiveness of a martial art, I tend to start sub-categorizing the martial art into what period I am looking at and how people use it: what was it in history, what is it today, people using it for physical fitness, an after school program, social needs, etc., and then moving across the spectrum to true self-defense training (defense) or true security personnel training (deliberate movement to confrontation), where the level of personal investment starts to really climb because there is a factual life, limb, and property consequence at the point of expected employment of the technique.

    This pattern of internal sub-categorizing information has been useful to me in many areas, but it means I have to spend a lot of time doing home work on arcane topics of interest only to people on Bullshido.... All of that to say, let's not paint Taekwondo with a broad brush. So much depends upon context.

  5. #15
    Bneterasedmynam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    illinois
    Posts
    4,759
    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mrtnira View Post
    I may be a heretic on Bullshido on a lot of popular topics.., but I have opinions based upon other experiences. I met a body guard and security professional from South Korea and worked with him for a week almost a decade ago. He was a 5th degree black belt in Taekwondo and could break bricks with his hands. His peer group advised me not to spar with him, because if he made a mistake and hit me too hard I could have internal bleeding. They were not teasing me; their tone was deliberate and they were insistent.

    I don't doubt people think Taekwondo is at Mcdojo quality in most places, because this happens when something is broadly disseminated. It happened with Aikido and Karate. It is a popular Bullshido discussion for a lot of martial arts. We end up calling out many elements of truth, but it may not be the whole truth within a larger context. Some training can be effective at a narrow, highly intense level for the few who are going to use it in expected life threatening conflict, but for the broad masses quality may vary.

    I think about the Soviets (historical modeling can be useful). For their army personal combat instructors, they were ruthlessly effective, but for an army of mass (most Soviet soldiers were conscripts on a two year rotation cycle), how effective were rank and file soldiers? It would depend upon their individual characteristics (physical ability and their individual level of physical courage) combined with the quality of their physical training instructor. I would expect the average guy would be average, but what was their ability compared to western armies in the same category? Would they have been better than western personnel because the western troop training plan did not have consistent martial arts training, but the Soviet troop training plan did?

    If the average Soviet guy was even slightly better than his western counterpart because of that limited repetitive training would we be speaking of the Soviet system in glowing terms today? Probably. Lots of things grow larger or smaller over time. Few things keep their accurate value within context. Look at current events -- we can see the historical narrative morphing in front of us as we move down the river of time. The same is for how we understand fighting arts.

    When talking about effectiveness of a martial art, I tend to start sub-categorizing the martial art into what period I am looking at and how people use it: what was it in history, what is it today, people using it for physical fitness, an after school program, social needs, etc., and then moving across the spectrum to true self-defense training (defense) or true security personnel training (deliberate movement to confrontation), where the level of personal investment starts to really climb because there is a factual life, limb, and property consequence at the point of expected employment of the technique.

    This pattern of internal sub-categorizing information has been useful to me in many areas, but it means I have to spend a lot of time doing home work on arcane topics of interest only to people on Bullshido.... All of that to say, let's not paint Taekwondo with a broad brush. So much depends upon context.
    This text wall would be great if there was even a microscopic amount of real evidence to support it. I get so fucking sick of the "I knew this one guy" crap that it makes me want to vomit.

  6. #16
    battlefields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Australia, Land of Oz
    Posts
    5,500
    Style
    BJJ/ MMA/ MT
    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bneterasedmynam View Post
    This text wall would be great if there was even a microscopic amount of real evidence to support it. I get so fucking sick of the "I knew this one guy" crap that it makes me want to vomit.
    But what if the guy he knew was the real deal?
    GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    I think Battlefields and I had a spirited discussion once about who was the biggest narcissist. We both wanted the title but at the end of the day I had to concede defeat. Can't win 'em all.
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    I <3 Battlefields...

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    525
    Style
    Muay Thai
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    But what if the guy he knew was the real deal?
    What if he was the *real* anonymous second hand acquaintance?

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    15
    Style
    Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have a year training in contact WTF taekwondo. I am not very for taekwondo, but the training I got in it helped me to improve my flexibility, and many of the kicks I learnt have been easily translated across to my Muay Thai training. I do not think taekwondo is worthless, but it could be much better. Also doing full contact taekwondo got me over the fear of contact fighting :P

  9. #19
    Ulsteryank's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    N. Ireland
    Posts
    348
    Style
    MMA
    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mrtnira View Post
    I may be a heretic on Bullshido on a lot of popular topics.., but I have opinions based upon other experiences. I met a body guard and security professional from South Korea and worked with him for a week almost a decade ago. He was a 5th degree black belt in Taekwondo and could break bricks with his hands.
    I did know a guy, my Taekwondo instructor, who could break bricks, and was a former Master instructor for the Korean Police cadets, US Green Berets, and the South Veitnam Military academy http://www.ahnsma.com/index.php?opti...=189&Itemid=28
    ....but that doesn't really mean much considering there's no comparison to the quality of military martial arts against individual adept martial artists. We can see it in all the Russian and North Korean propaganda vids, I saw it with MCMAP, and we've seen on here before with former SEALS like Jocko Willink commenting on how poor and traditional their martial arts training was. Something he took upon himself to change.

    Though my Taekwondo was more self defence oriented, and less flip kicky, there was a lot of esoterics and little emphasis on sparring. We did learn how to kick hard, but I didn't see any benefit until I left the art for a Karate dojo that kickbxed.

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    15
    Style
    Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One of the problems I find with Taekwondo kicks is the flicking of the knee. Especially for 'side kicks', raising the knee and then flicking is so incredibly weak its very strange people think they should use it in fights :P

Page 2 of 3 First 123 Last

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in