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  1. #11
    W. Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrtnira View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzpn5m8AINs
    Here is it is, from the X-Files episode where a young Smoking Man is the second shooter.
    Even though I have a love-hate relationship with the X-Files, this alternative history imagining was their best episode ever.

    We beat the Soviets at hockey by drugging their whole team. Priceless. For those who haven't watched this one, it's the Forrest Gump episode. CSM was the boogeyman behind every scandal and world event for decades.

    Unfortunately, I hate the whole legacy of this show for creating a country full of paranoid schizoids who believe the truth is always somewhere "out there" and never right in front of them.

  2. #12
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    I'm still not convinced there wasn't another shooter. Oswald had a piece of crap rifle, high deflection moving target and USMC rifle classification of Marksman. We call that the toilet bowl. Lowest of three classifications. Means you're qualified to carry it in battle. As is every clerk, cook and driver.

    Still, Sam's thoughts mirror what I've heard from guests of the talking heads. Heard tonight more will be released in 180 days. Who knows how much more. They've only had 25 years.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by hungryjoe View Post
    I'm still not convinced there wasn't another shooter. Oswald had a piece of crap rifle, high deflection moving target and USMC rifle classification of Marksman. We call that the toilet bowl. Lowest of three classifications. Means you're qualified to carry it in battle. As is every clerk, cook and driver.
    There's just no evidence of any second shooter. If there was, it would come forward by now even if it was kept secret by the US. They can't keep secrets worth a **** anymore.

    Don't focus so much on what the Marine Corps thought of him. Soviet and Cuban intelligence thought he might bear fruit, and he had plenty of time to practice. And according to his (Russian) wife, he even had a practice (failed) attempt on the life of General Edwin Walker.

    Even a shitty Italian rifle is deadly, as long as it works.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 10/26/2017 9:49pm at .

  4. #14

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    Hungry Joe, the second shooter theory that makes sense to me is that Oswald was a cut out. For this he would have been handled by someone and encouraged to think he was taking direct action in the name of the Revolution, or another cause aligning with his odd world view. When in reality, a trained marksman unknown to Oswald was going to do the actual work. Oswald is arrested and becomes the magnet for attention. The operation is successful.

    I find it interesting that Oswald's vocalization of innocence is consistent, even when Jack Ruby shoots him in the gut and kills him. 54 years later it still puzzles me. That part of it never made sense. I am one of those people who remember where they were when Kennedy was assassinated.

  5. #15
    hungryjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    There's just no evidence of any second shooter. If there was, it would come forward by now even if it was kept secret by the US. They can't keep secrets worth a **** anymore.

    Don't focus so much on what the Marine Corps thought of him. Soviet and Cuban intelligence thought he might bear fruit, and he had plenty of time to practice. And according to his (Russian) wife, he even had a practice (failed) attempt on the life of General Edwin Walker.

    Even a shitty Italian rifle is deadly, as long as it works.
    I said I wasn't convinced. They did lose JFK's brain. How do you do that?

    Don't start an argument about marksmanship. You're not qualified to speak from experience. You may think so. Your last sentence says otherwise.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrtnira View Post
    Hungry Joe, the second shooter theory that makes sense to me is that Oswald was a cut out. For this he would have been handled by someone and encouraged to think he was taking direct action in the name of the Revolution, or another cause aligning with his odd world view. When in reality, a trained marksman unknown to Oswald was going to do the actual work. Oswald is arrested and becomes the magnet for attention. The operation is successful.

    I find it interesting that Oswald's vocalization of innocence is consistent, even when Jack Ruby shoots him in the gut and kills him. 54 years later it still puzzles me. That part of it never made sense. I am one of those people who remember where they were when Kennedy was assassinated.
    We are of one mind. Except I was only four and remember the three TV channels showed nothing but.

    My position on Oswald's shots come from experience in the field of firearms and competition. That was a well placed bullet. Luck or not.

  7. #17

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    Here is a good article on what information is missing from existing files.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...release-244227

    The end of the Vietnam war was a real transition point in the agency. I'm assuming your grandfather didn't retire when Stansfield Turner came in under Carter. He though the agency was over staffed and let a bunch of people go. Long discussion omitted concerning whether this was a good decision or not.

    However one could be a CIA employee in say 1975 and want to get out of the agency because of all the effort that had been devoted to Vietnam and Cambodia and Laos with absolutely disastorous results. A number of other people left after other fucked up covert operations. Secondly if your grandfather went in circa 1950, 1975 would have been around the 25 year service mark and a whole cadre who had been recruited after WII and the Korean War (when the agency bulked up) decided it was time to pack it in. Some people also left after the Church Committee investigation because they didn't like to see the CIA's secrets exposed. And some of the secrets like our screwed up efforts to assassinate Castro where highly embarrassing.

  8. #18

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    Didn't Oswald have two qualifications? One right at the end of boot camp which was the one above marksman, and then his last rating right before he left the Marine Corps on a hardship discharge and didn't give a damn was marksman. Oswald actually scammed the Corps to get out early claiming his mom had medical issues and needed his help. He then promptly fled to Russia where he tried to surrender his citizenship. Obviously in retrospect, we should have never let the loser come back to the states.

  9. #19
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    I only remember Marksman but he may have qualified sharpshooter. Even if that it's not that impressive. Expert is the top and from there the sniper MOS draws.

    It leaves room for doubt. Shooting cold bore even more so. Most don't realize the difficulty of the shot. Even with a good rifle.

    Course there's always luck.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Browning View Post
    Here is a good article on what information is missing from existing files.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...release-244227
    Many of the articles I've read concern "NBRs," documents that are Not Believed Relevant, but may expose operatives, operations, and/or methodologies currently or recently in use (yes, even half a century later), which is where the national security risk comes from. On the face, I don't have a problem with this, but 54 years later (and a 25 year warning) seems like plenty of time to protect your assets. Unless, of course, you're ABCDisney, but that's a whole other area of law.

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