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  1. #1

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    We all agree that kid black belts aren't good right?

    You'd think it'd be obvious, but I made a post on my reddit account Dobokdude about why kid black belts are a no no but one guy just doesn't get it.



    What do you guys think? Bullshido or no?

  2. #2
    hungryjoe's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by vanguard103 View Post
    You'd think it'd be obvious, but I made a post on my reddit account Dobokdude about why kid black belts are a no no but one guy just doesn't get it.



    What do you guys think? Bullshido or no?
    I think you didn't read the stickies regarding MABS. Personally I don't think kids should have black belts. You don't list a style. What is it?

    This tops has been discussed indepth before. Have you done a search of this site? Expect this to be moved to another forum and don't take offense.

    edit

    Noticed you show username of Dobokdude for Reddit. That narrows down the style.

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    Holy Moment's Avatar
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    What exactly does age have to do with skill?

    If a child can complete the requirements needed to earn a black belt, then he should be given a black belt. Not a "junior black belt," but a proper first dan. Fighting is about technique, not size. Just because children are smaller on average than adults doesn't mean they can't be capable combatants. Just look at Olympic gymnasts and how young some of them are.
    Dan Severn loves raping people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    What exactly does age have to do with skill?

    If a child can complete the requirements needed to earn a black belt, then he should be given a black belt. Not a "junior black belt," but a proper first dan. Fighting is about technique, not size. Just because children are smaller on average than adults doesn't mean they can't be capable combatants. Just look at Olympic gymnasts and how young some of them are.

    Sorry but no I have to disagree. This guy summed it up well:





    Q: “WHEN WILL MY KID GET A BLACK BELT?”





    In short: S/he will probably not get the opportunity to test for a black belt until s/he is 18 except under very exceptional circumstances, in which case s/he may be allowed to do so at age 16 or 17. How many people truly believe that a 14 year old who’s parents paid for err… who was given a “black belt” -what we call a “brat belt”- could possibly possess all the necessary tools to defend himself in most any given situation. Ask yourself how likely it is that a mere child would have the proper maturity, coordination and physical strength to actually fight off a would-be abductor or even the bully down the street who outweighs them by 40 pounds? “Sparring” in tournaments or elsewhere is not the same as fighting.




    * Since a child is not legally accountable for his or her actions they are not awarded the stature of the Black belt. Their knowledge of right and wrong is often clouded by childish notions of what they want. Of course that applies to many adults as well, but our justice system has decided that at 18 you are old enough to know better.




    * A Black belt should understand the implications (legal, ethical and moral) of her actions and act accordingly.




    * A Black belt implies someone with expertise in the basics who can teach -and effectively use- those concepts and techniques. No 12 year old child is likely to have the wisdom or life experience to pass on the teachings to another child, not to mention another adult. An adult will not take a 14 year old “black belt” seriously as a martial arts teacher because he knows s/he is a kid. Not to mention that skills being effective against other kids does not mean they will be effective against someone twice their age and size, as mentioned before.




    The fact is that a lot of schools have completely forgotten what the martial arts are for: to train the body and mind for confrontations and violence. The word ‘martial’ means ‘of or appropriate to war; warlike’. ‘Martial arts’ are not for little Johnny to get better grades in school, or to overcome his ‘A.D.D’. Such things might arguably be a beneficial side-effect, but that has little to do with training someone to fight for their lives. An instructor that tries to tell you otherwise is selling something. Self-discipline starts with the word ‘self’, not ‘Sifu’ or ‘Sensei’ – and definitely not ‘Master’ . You are not paying me to be a babysitter so I will not act like one. Many schools have turned into belt machines, guaranteeing rank as long as you sign the contract. No matter what age or physical ability, a person will eventually be wearing a black belt if they pay their fees to a “McDojo” school.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    What exactly does age have to do with skill?

    If a child can complete the requirements needed to earn a black belt, then he should be given a black belt. Not a "junior black belt," but a proper first dan. Fighting is about technique, not size. Just because children are smaller on average than adults doesn't mean they can't be capable combatants. Just look at Olympic gymnasts and how young some of them are.

    Also there's this guy from Mcdojo FAQ:



    QUESTION: If a child can pass the same requirements as an adult for black belt, then what is so wrong with kids having black belts?
    I get this question all the time. Quite simply, if a child can pass the same requirements to get an adult black belt, then the requirements are set too low. The school just lowered the standards to let ANYONE get a black belt. Kids shouldn't be able to get a full fledged adult black belt. Black Belts should be something only the best of the best can get, and there test to get it should show levels of martial arts, athleticism, and skill above the general population. Memorizing forms, one-steps, and self-defense techniques aren't it. Now, if your 8 year old is willing to go full contact sparring with a full sized adult, and will win, then sure, he should have a black belt. But can kids do that? No. If you can find someone under 14 who can and is willing to step up and prove himself, then fine, by all means. But 99.9999% of kid black belts CAN'T EVEN DEFEAT SOMEONE UNSKILLED IN THEIR OWN AGE, let alone a full grown adult attacking them.

  6. #6
    Holy Moment's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The school just lowered the standards to let ANYONE get a black belt.
    Bullshit.

    The criteria for earning a black belt was established YEARS ago by the various founders of all the major karate styles. Are you going to doubt the wisdom of martial geniuses like Gichin Funakoshi?
    Dan Severn loves raping people.

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    hungryjoe's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Judo 18 minimum. ATA TKD, maybe 8. Broad difference no matter the number of kata/poomse memorized.

    It is hard to get good help. Someone send this to YMAS. HM has entered. Reason enough.

  8. #8
    Permalost's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good, like good at fighting? Only shitty styles give kids black belts, and black belts in shitty styles are bad at fighting. So they're small people who are bad at fighting. But there's all those other benefits that come along with shitty martial arts training besides fighting skill, like mild discipline, homework encouragement and reciting Korean propaganda. Man, I'd hate to fight a miniature good-homework-doer in a dark alley.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    Bullshit.

    The criteria for earning a black belt was established YEARS ago by the various founders of all the major karate styles. Are you going to doubt the wisdom of martial geniuses like Gichin Funakoshi?
    You will have to refer us to a historical source which shows that Funakoshi was regularly giving black belts to kids. I doubt you will do that because you haven't had a serious post in years.

  10. #10

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by vanguard103 View Post
    Also there's this guy from Mcdojo FAQ:



    QUESTION: If a child can pass the same requirements as an adult for black belt, then what is so wrong with kids having black belts?
    I get this question all the time. Quite simply, if a child can pass the same requirements to get an adult black belt, then the requirements are set too low. The school just lowered the standards to let ANYONE get a black belt. Kids shouldn't be able to get a full fledged adult black belt. Black Belts should be something only the best of the best can get, and there test to get it should show levels of martial arts, athleticism, and skill above the general population. Memorizing forms, one-steps, and self-defense techniques aren't it. Now, if your 8 year old is willing to go full contact sparring with a full sized adult, and will win, then sure, he should have a black belt. But can kids do that? No. If you can find someone under 14 who can and is willing to step up and prove himself, then fine, by all means. But 99.9999% of kid black belts CAN'T EVEN DEFEAT SOMEONE UNSKILLED IN THEIR OWN AGE, let alone a full grown adult attacking them.
    To be fair, a Shodan (1st degree black belt) does only indicate that one is able to display the basics (read: all basic techniques) in a reliable and powerful way. At least in all Japanese MAs that I am aware of. Yes, you should have some prowess in competition as well. But this is far from being a mandatory requirement in most styles and/or federations. Black belts are over-idealised and overrated by most people.

    I have seen 14 year-olds deserving black belts much more than adults wearing them. Both in technique and fighting ability.

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