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  1. #41
    hungryjoe's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've probably spent upwards of $250,000 of other people's money on 3D printed parts. The vast bulk of it for prototyping. I won't get into the fields or products as most involve NDAs.

    Designing and fabrication of products and the tools to produce the same. Molds, dies, fixtures, etc including robotics. The price of 3D (additive manufacturing) is coming down. The choice of materials grows. I can't speak to what is currently cutting edge in a university or large corporation's R&D department. I can tell you what is available to me, what it costs and what materials are available. I support inventors and companies without a large engineering staff. Keeping abreast of technology keeps me relevant.


    I'm sure the goal post will be moved. Earlier you could do this work with a $300 machine.

  2. #42
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Printing next gen stuff is super pricey.

    There is a pistol that can be reliably printed on "many machines" but ... its functionality and general numbers are overstated. Our library has incredible ability to print and I don't think they could do it, physically. Nevermind the logistics of keeping it on the downlow. Our makerspace is insane... we can do buttons and shirts and binding(book) and printing and 3d scanning and photography... but your using the multiple thousands of dollars printer for a week straight to print a pistol. Some 3d print shops in town can do it for sure. But very very very few individuals have the right stuff.

    It is kinda like that .38 they air dropped to allies in WWII maybe? Must have been WWII.
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  3. #43
    W. Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    SHOT is relevant because if there is any technology whatsoever that is available and marketable on a widespread basis to people who wish to own guns, it’s there..
    So was Defense Distributed or Solid Concepts there this year or previous years? They represent the bleeding edge of homemade gun technology, so their presence or absence should be interesting either way.

  4. #44
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Have you actually watched any of the videos I posted or looked at why the State Department put a federal smackdown on this technology? It's not Star Trek technology, Devil, it's from 3-4 years in the past.

    I get that you're an expert and all in fine tooling and arms, and that's awesome. You seem unaware of just how far the technology that will replace you has come in just the last 5 years.
    Hahahah the Government putting the smack down on anything doesn't make your assertions correct. You are an uniformed alarmist who PRETENDS to understand gunsmiths and 3d printing.

  5. #45
    W. Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hungryjoe View Post
    Earlier you could do this work with a $300 machine.
    $300 (actually $250) was the actual cost in 2013 to make a fully functional metal lower AR-15 receiver using the Ghost Gunner box from Defense Distributed. DefDist sold thousands of those units to hobbyists and used the proceeds and other online methods like Kickstarter to make whatever it is they have in their labs today (and that the US State Department won't let them tell you about until they win in court).

    What do you think the cost would be for the equipment necessary to make the same thing using traditional industrial tools? I'm guessing you need to add at least a couple zeros. The order of magnitude in cost has dropped in just the last 5 years or so. And quality and durability will just keep improving. Costs down, quality up, over time.

  6. #46
    W. Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Hahahah the Government putting the smack down on anything doesn't make your assertions correct. You are an uniformed alarmist who PRETENDS to understand gunsmiths and 3d printing.
    Honestly I don't know anything about gunsmithing and admitted it already. The same goes for fine tooling or even carpentry...I suck at both. I have made my own ammunition, can disassemble and re-assemble firearms, and have worked with pretty snazzy 3D printers.

    Alarmist about home-made weapons? Yeah, kinda. I'm pro gun, but this technology (in the hands of dangerous people) is a little intimidating. It doesn't help that the people putting it out there describe themselves as "techno-anarchists". I don't get a healthy vibe from that.

    It's hard to find a better example of the government being alarmed about weapons technology in the hands of private citizens than the DefDist case. The USSC is going to decide at some point in the next year or so whether or not their (your) 1st Amendment rights give you the right to not only build guns in your home, but tell others how to do it.

    There are serious parallels here with encryption technology and export control from the 90's...before encryption use by private citizens became common, the government was so worried about it being used by anarchists and terrorists that they tried to ban it several times (unsuccessfully). Today, banning encryption seems silly and impossible but it comes up again and again after terrorist attacks and major crimes where encryption was a factor.

    Anyways, I thought it was a good topic for discussion...the potential future failure of all gun control efforts at the hands of techno-anarchists. Derail over.

  7. #47
    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten. supporting member
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    So was Defense Distributed or Solid Concepts there this year or previous years? They represent the bleeding edge of homemade gun technology, so their presence or absence should be interesting either way.
    The bleeding edge of homemade gun technology is similar to the bleeding edge of homemade space shuttle technology.

  8. #48
    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten. supporting member
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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    $300 (actually $250) was the actual cost in 2013 to make a fully functional metal lower AR-15 receiver using the Ghost Gunner box from Defense Distributed. DefDist sold thousands of those units to hobbyists and used the proceeds and other online methods like Kickstarter to make whatever it is they have in their labs today (and that the US State Department won't let them tell you about until they win in court).

    What do you think the cost would be for the equipment necessary to make the same thing using traditional industrial tools? I'm guessing you need to add at least a couple zeros. The order of magnitude in cost has dropped in just the last 5 years or so. And quality and durability will just keep improving. Costs down, quality up, over time.
    Yawn.

    I’m sure tons of machinists will be lining up to buy your shitbox printer since they can use it to do all their machining operations for a fraction of the cost. Pfft.

  9. #49
    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten. supporting member
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Honestly I don't know anything about gunsmithing and admitted it already. The same goes for fine tooling or even carpentry...I suck at both. I have made my own ammunition, can disassemble and re-assemble firearms, and have worked with pretty snazzy 3D printers.

    Alarmist about home-made weapons? Yeah, kinda. I'm pro gun, but this technology (in the hands of dangerous people) is a little intimidating. It doesn't help that the people putting it out there describe themselves as "techno-anarchists". I don't get a healthy vibe from that.

    It's hard to find a better example of the government being alarmed about weapons technology in the hands of private citizens than the DefDist case. The USSC is going to decide at some point in the next year or so whether or not their (your) 1st Amendment rights give you the right to not only build guns in your home, but tell others how to do it.

    There are serious parallels here with encryption technology and export control from the 90's...before encryption use by private citizens became common, the government was so worried about it being used by anarchists and terrorists that they tried to ban it several times (unsuccessfully). Today, banning encryption seems silly and impossible but it comes up again and again after terrorist attacks and major crimes where encryption was a factor.

    Anyways, I thought it was a good topic for discussion...the potential future failure of all gun control efforts at the hands of techno-anarchists. Derail over.
    It intimidates you because people are afraid of what they don’t understand.

  10. #50
    W. Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    The bleeding edge of homemade gun technology is similar to the bleeding edge of homemade space shuttle technology.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    It intimidates you because people are afraid of what they don’t understand.
    OK, but I can't make any space shuttle components in my garage. I can (total noob Rabbit) mill a perfectly functional, untraceable metal AR-15 receiver for the same price as a laptop computer, by essentially pushing a button.

    Right?

    Based on the question you avoided, I take it Defense Distributed hasn't gone or maybe isn't allowed at SPOT? I can just imagine how that would play out, techno-anarchists selling boxes for making unserialized weapons at a convention full of police and military...keep tabs on them, Devil, and you'll be amazed too.

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