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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I'll let the professional machinist (Joe) and gunsmith (Devil) explain to you the difference between a plastic pistol and a AR-15 (or any other high-pressure/intensity rifle or pistol round), and the materials needed to contain high chamber pressures.

    **EDit**

    Thanks, guys, that should help explain some of the issues with "printing a whole AR-15", et al.
    Some things are better learned by trial and error. That’s how I’d advise Rabbit to proceed. Maybe a nice plastic zip gun in .50 AE would be a good place to start. Have at it, Mr. Wizard.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I'll let the professional machinist (Joe) and gunsmith (Devil) explain to you the difference between a plastic pistol and a AR-15 (or any other high-pressure/intensity rifle or pistol round), and the materials needed to contain high chamber pressures.
    You're still stuck in 3D printing = plastic mentality. The technology exists today for DIY home 3D milling/shaping of metal parts, plastic, wood, and a whole range of other materials. The price required to do fine work without ANY skill is dropping by an order of magnitude every few years. I already showed you a metal, 3D milled AR-15 receiver that can withstand a significant amount of stress (though not quite to industrial specifications, as Submessenger noted).

    Here we go with the appeals. Fine, the professional scientist and engineer (Rabbit) values everyone's expert explanations, as usual. It's enjoyable to see responses that involve a few minutes of effort, as opposed to "NO, YOU CAN'T" and "yer dumb".

    You guys as usual stuck discussing what's present and what you think you know. I was pointing at what's emergent. "decades" away is unlikely, more like years. The US government definitely believes there is an immediate control/export risk from this cheap DIY tech.

    Remember somebody said you couldn't 3D print a rifled barrel, but then I pointed out an engineer did it 4 years ago. The truth is nobody in this thread knows **** about what Defense Distributed is making today, but for sure, it might put a lot of professional machinists and expert gunsmiths out of business.

    Remember all the recent stories about automation and robots replacing skilled workers? It was talking about them.
    Last edited by Ice Hole; 10/05/2017 11:51am at .

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by submessenger View Post
    Again, totally awesome that they are doing this, but they are a long ways from having a viable (i.e. reliable and safe-for-the-shooter) weapon.
    Your skepticism makes sense, but "Long ways", I disagree. Clearly Joe and Devil and you and Cassius are the subject matter experts on current technology, but I wonder about the new technology and how familiar anyone here is with it.

    There seems to be a bit of disconnect between the folks in the thread who are familiar with how to make guns, and the people at DefenseDist and Solid Concepts (experts) who clearly believe their tech will bring full 3D gun manufacture to the unskilled masses, for pennies on the dollar compared to industrial manufacture. That is their stated goal after all, to give people the ability to create their own serialized weapons (a concept that bothers me, but oh well).

    They want people to go around the laws, using technology (hence their self-described techno-anarchist leanings). If they succeed (and I believe they may already have, but can't go public with it), it'll basically make "gun control" via legislation and tracking impossible. Every criminal will be able to create their own custom untraceable firearms.

    It's interesting how we've gone from "no you can't print that" to "well you can print some of that", and "good luck making a rifled barrel" to "oh wow, they did that already", in the span of a 12 hour conversation.

    Great job straightening me out.
    Last edited by Ice Hole; 10/05/2017 11:59am at .

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    You're still stuck in 3D printing = plastic mentality. The technology exists today for DIY home 3D milling/shaping of metal parts, plastic, wood, and a whole range of other materials. The price required to do fine work without ANY skill is dropping by an order of magnitude every few years. I already showed you a metal, 3D milled AR-15 receiver that can withstand a significant amount of stress (though not quite to industrial specifications, as Submessenger noted).

    Here we go with the appeals. Fine, the professional scientist and engineer (Rabbit) values everyone's expert explanations, as usual. It's enjoyable to see responses that involve a few minutes of effort, as opposed to "NO, YOU CAN'T" and "yer dumb".

    You guys as usual stuck discussing what's present and what you think you know. I was pointing at what's emergent. "decades" away is unlikely, more like years. The US government definitely believes there is an immediate control/export risk from this cheap DIY tech.

    Remember somebody said you couldn't 3D print a rifled barrel, but then I pointed out an engineer did it 4 years ago. The truth is nobody in this thread knows **** about what Defense Distributed is making today, but for sure, it might put a lot of professional machinists and expert gunsmiths out of business.

    Remember all the recent stories about automation and robots replacing skilled workers? It was talking about them.
    You are the one who’s not listening. I’ve watched barrels being manufactured and have had long discussions with the people who manufacture them. You, on the other hand, are talking out your ass about some Star Trek technology.

    We can talk all day about futuristic ****. Smart bullets and smart guns and robots and whatnot. The future holds all sorts of new technologies. Let’s bring it on back to Earth for now, Rabbit.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Your skepticism makes sense, but "Long ways", I disagree. Clearly Joe and Devil and you and Cassius are the subject matter experts on current technology, but I wonder about the new technology and how familiar anyone here is with it.

    There seems to be a bit of disconnect between the folks in the thread who are familiar with how to make guns, and the people at DefenseDist and Solid Concepts (experts) who clearly believe their tech will bring full 3D gun manufacture to the unskilled masses, for pennies on the dollar compared to industrial manufacture. That is their stated goal after all, to give people the ability to create their own serialized weapons (a concept that bothers me, but oh well).

    They want people to go around the laws, using technology (hence their self-described techno-anarchist leanings). If they succeed (and I believe they may already have, but can't go public with it), it'll basically make "gun control" via legislation and tracking impossible. Every criminal will be able to create their own custom untraceable firearms.

    It's interesting how we've gone from "no you can't print that" to "well you can print some of that", and "good luck making a rifled barrel" to "oh wow, they did that already", in the span of a 12 hour conversation.

    Great job straightening me out.
    If there is current technology that I’m unfamiliar with, then it is technology that isn’t relevant at this time. Regular folks will not be making rifle barrels from scratch at home any time soon.

    Now, the manufacture of untraceable AR’s is easy because milling AR lowers is within reach of anyone with a machining background. And the rest of the parts can be purchased with no paperwork. But that’s always been the case. Traditional machining is still the cheaper, smarter way to go if you want to roll your own. Why **** around trying to make one out of plastic?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    You are the one who’s not listening. I’ve watched barrels being manufactured and have had long discussions with the people who manufacture them. You, on the other hand, are talking out your ass about some Star Trek technology.

    We can talk all day about futuristic ****. Smart bullets and smart guns and robots and whatnot. The future holds all sorts of new technologies. Let’s bring it on back to Earth for now, Rabbit.
    Have you actually watched any of the videos I posted or looked at why the State Department put a federal smackdown on this technology? It's not Star Trek technology, Devil, it's from 3-4 years in the past.

    I get that you're an expert and all in fine tooling and arms, and that's awesome. You seem unaware of just how far the technology that will replace you has come in just the last 5 years.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Regular folks will not be making rifle barrels from scratch at home any time soon.
    ..
    Why **** around trying to make one out of plastic?
    Less than 5 years, based on the current progress being made. Yes it's a prediction, but according to 3D gun printing experts, it's legit and they are full speed ahead on it.

    Very soon, you will be able to afford a micro version of what's essentially and entire fabrication plant, small enough to fit in any home office, and capable of building any shape from multiple material types and precise specifications using pre-loaded CAD schematics. I say this because the prototypes like the Ghost Gunner are already out there. This is OLD technology at this point. And the government wants to ban/hide it because they know it's a dangerous concept, being promoted by techno-anarchists.

    See this is how I can tell you've never really investigated this technology. Plastic was the beginning of home 3D printer...we're beyond that now and the prices for printing shapes from stronger materials is dropping like a rock.

    I also understand how people who work in fine tooling like Joe and yourself might be wary/concerned about the technology. It essentially enables people with zero skill, like me, to plump down some money and buy a black box that can spit out whatever I have a schematic file for. AR-15 lower receiver is nothing, wait to you see what's coming next.
    Last edited by Ice Hole; 10/05/2017 12:18pm at .

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Have you actually watched any of the videos I posted or looked at why the State Department put a federal smackdown on this technology? It's not Star Trek technology, Devil, it's from 3-4 years in the past.

    I get that you're an expert and all in fine tooling and arms, and that's awesome. You seem unaware of just how far the technology that will replace you has come in just the last 5 years.
    No, I haven’t watched it and I’m not going to. I go to the SHOT Show every year. You are not going to school me on any relevant gun technology any time soon, I promise. The **** you’re talking about is not relevant at this time and it’s not about to be relevant. Again, they’ve designed smart bullets too. Also not relevant for you or me and it won’t be any time soon.

    Nobody is going to replace me. I don’t think you understand what a gunsmith does. I’m not a barrel maker. I don’t give a **** if they make barrels with black magic and virgin souls. Guns break, I fix them. They’re machines. The need for my services is growing exponentially and the number of people who possess my skills are declining.

    ****, if there were laser guns on the shelves at every Wal-Mart I could still busy for the rest of my life restoring “antique weapons.” ****’s only a side gig for me now, anyway.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    No, I haven’t watched it and I’m not going to. I go to the SHOT Show every year.
    I don't know what SHOTS has to do with anything but enjoy the dark ages, my friend. It's a shame you're not more interested in where this technology has come in the 4 years since the government gag order.

    I wasn't try to "school" anyone, just show the wonders of invention as it relates to the thread topic (gun control) and how it's definitely going to change the whole landscape in the short term. I figured somebody would start appealing to their personal authority about guns in a discussion about bleeding edge gun technology and legal rights... the Vegas odds were on you. They always are.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    I don't know what SHOTS has to do with anything but enjoy the dark ages, my friend. It's a shame you're not more interested in where this technology has come in the 4 years since the government gag order.

    I wasn't try to "school" anyone, just show the wonders of invention as it relates to the thread topic (gun control) and how it's definitely going to change the whole landscape in the short term. I figured somebody would start appealing to their personal authority about guns in a discussion about bleeding edge gun technology and legal rights... the Vegas odds were on you. They always are.
    SHOT is relevant because if there is any technology whatsoever that is available and marketable on a widespread basis to people who wish to own guns, it’s there.

    People invent new ****? Things change? Well, holy ****! I never thought of that!

    You know fuckall about what’s going to happen in the firearms industry in the short term. You saw some nerd ****, have no context with which to evaluate it, and have decided current firearms technology is obsolete.

    You’re fantasizing.

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