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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by submessenger View Post
    You're missing the point. Good luck firing a 50,000+ psi round through reconstituted plastic. Lowers and stocks and grips, sure. But, when you get to the upper receiver and barrel, you need something a little beefier. The steel printing machines are still a nascent field, and even if you logistically could accomplish these parts, I wouldn't want to become the test case for printed over forged.
    The key point here is that home 3D printing is not limited to plastic for a while now and these are not hobbyists...Defense Distributed has had a fully functional lab for developing 3D metal weapon printing for years now...the only thing holding them back from selling the devices and schematics for all of it is the US State Department.

    The Ghost Gun machines build a fully metal lower receiver. The printers can also make fully functional magazines..all the other parts are simpler and trivial to make. The rifled barrel has probably been perfected by Defense Distributed by now (since the proof of concept is 4 years old), but they're under federal bootheel so you won't hear about it from them...based on the last time they went public, and people lost their minds.

    The US government is extremely worried about this tech becoming cheaper and mainstream. I haven't seen them stomp down on entrepreneurs like this since they tried to shut down Phil Zimmerman's crypto as "munitions". Pretty soon the ability to print untraceable weapons at home will be so cheap and easy your kids could do it.

    I'm sure you made your own ammunition before...it's fun, right? This is the next generation of that.

    The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home: https://www.wired.com/2014/10/cody-wilson-ghost-gunner/

    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 10/05/2017 12:22am at .

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    The Ghost Gun machines build a fully metal receiver. The printers can also make magazines. All the other parts are trivial to make.

    https://www.wired.com/2014/10/cody-wilson-ghost-gunner/
    Those aren't printed. They are CNC milled, a technique which has been used for DECADES. You're all over the place, here. The 8 shots from the plastic gun weren't even successive rounds. That is a one-time-use gun, at best. You can't even take it to the range to practice with, lest it melt and probably injure you and the people in the lanes on either side of you.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I watched the whole thing I saw no such thing.

    The only thing I saw were lowers and of all things a bump fire stock.
    The metal receiver was the hardest part to DIY until 2013, but now it's automated and costs only hundreds of dollars (it used to cost tens of thousands). You can print or mill all the other parts using the exact same machines using different schematics (or just order them online).

    The rifled barrel was first 3D printed in plastic in 2004, but with the same Defense Distributed tech used in the Ghost Gunner, it can easily done with metal and almost any shape down to micrometer precision.

    You just need a program and the right robot, which they've had half a decade to perfect since their government gag order.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by submessenger View Post
    Those aren't printed. They are CNC milled, a technique which has been used for DECADES. You're all over the place, here. The 8 shots from the plastic gun weren't even successive rounds. That is a one-time-use gun, at best. You can't even take it to the range to practice with, lest it melt and probably injure you and the people in the lanes on either side of you.
    Sorry, I'm using "3D printer" to include these cheap, DIY robotic CNC mills, which the Ghost Gunner is, a 1 cubic foot personal CNC that spits out a metal AR-15 receiver. Keep in mind Defense Distributed has many, many other schematics, and the Ghost Gunner tech can mill practically anything it's programmed to, very quickly. If you can make a metal receiver in minutes, you can make anything else.

    Yeah, I know milling metal has been around for quite some time...but the ability to upload a schematic and spit out practically any metal or plastic part, including an AR-15 receiver, is pretty cutting edge.

    Like I said, even if you think it's not practical you'll have to explain why the US government went apeshit to make it go away, requiring a Supreme Court challenge by the creators of little black boxes that spit out AR-15 parts..metal or plastic.

    Remember, somebody said can't print AR-15s...but you can, and it's only getting cheaper and faster, hence the State Department smack down.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 10/05/2017 12:43am at .

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    The key point here is that home 3D printing is not limited to plastic for a while now and these are not hobbyists...Defense Distributed has had a fully functional lab for developing 3D metal weapon printing for years now...the only thing holding them back from selling the devices and schematics for all of it is the US State Department.

    The Ghost Gun machines build a fully metal lower receiver. The printers can also make fully functional magazines..all the other parts are simpler and trivial to make. The rifled barrel has probably been perfected by Defense Distributed by now (since the proof of concept is 4 years old), but they're under federal bootheel so you won't hear about it from them...based on the last time they went public, and people lost their minds.

    The US government is extremely worried about this tech becoming cheaper and mainstream. I haven't seen them stomp down on entrepreneurs like this since they tried to shut down Phil Zimmerman's crypto as "munitions". Pretty soon the ability to print untraceable weapons at home will be so cheap and easy your kids could do it.

    I'm sure you made your own ammunition before...it's fun, right? This is the next generation of that.

    The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home: https://www.wired.com/2014/10/cody-wilson-ghost-gunner/

    Don't get me wrong, I totally geek out on the tech aspects, and the frontier-ism, and the little-L libertarian in me loves the idea of an off-the-books weapon.

    Dan Bernstein is one of my heroes, btw.

  6. #16
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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_printed_firearms

    Looks like the DefDist AR-15 receiver is pretty durable for a DIY project.

    Defense Distributed has also designed a 3D printable AR-15 type rifle lower receiver (capable of lasting more than 650 rounds) and a variety of magazines, including ones for AK-47
    Hey now look at this...this should answer BKR's question...yes, even all the littlest, most delicate bits of any firearm can be 3D printed in metal.

    Solid Concepts out of Texas has made a fully functional M1911 with 3D printed parts. Now, this was NOT CHEAP or DIY, but that will change with time.

    Texas company makes metal gun with 3-D printer: http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/08/tech/i...gun/index.html

    A Texas company says it has made the first metal gun using a 3-D printer, taking the debate over people's emerging ability to create their own firearms to a new level.
    Solid Concepts, a specialty manufacturing company, said in a blog post it has fired more than 50 rounds from the handgun, even hitting a few bull's-eyes at more than 30 yards.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 10/05/2017 12:53am at .

  7. #17
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    Their lower receiver can only handle 650 rounds. I've probably put 1000 rounds through my AR since I last cleaned it.

    Lower receiver is just a fancy name for the block which holds the trigger. It doesn't undergo the heat and stress that the barrel or upper receiver do. They don't have an upper or barrel, yet (for the AR platform). That's where all the magic happens, from a practical perspective. Please, take some time to study AR construction. Then, take some time to study ballistics. There's a mile of difference between .45 ACP and .223Rem/5.56Nato.

    Again, totally awesome that they are doing this, but they are a long ways from having a viable (i.e. reliable and safe-for-the-shooter) weapon.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by submessenger View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I totally geek out on the tech aspects, and the frontier-ism, and the little-L libertarian in me loves the idea of an off-the-books weapon.

    Dan Bernstein is one of my heroes, btw.
    So here's my bias, full disclosure. I had the luxury of attending a DEFCON Sky Talk (ie. fancypants unrecorded presentation you need to LINECON for at least an hour to get into, run by DC303 out of Denver, CO, for the uninitiated) about homemade gun smithing and the end of gun control.

    The presenter, whom I can't name (I forget names on purpose), was not only an attorney familiar with state gun laws, but also a DIY gunsmith and enthusiast.

    His presentation was entitled "The Genie is Out of the Bottle", and while most of the talk was related to a video demonstration of DIY shotgun, the preamble of his speech amounted to "gun control regulations are useless in the age of 3D printing".

    He was able to convince me pretty damn hard, man.

    Cody Wilson's tweet upon receiving the Cease and Desist from the US State Department in 2013 (4 years ago, ancient history!!)

    "#DEFCAD is going dark at the request of the SOS Department of Defense Trade Controls. Some shapes are more dangerous than others."


    Remind me sometime to tell you how my wife got me into a DC303 party in 2005. It involved a very intoxicated Rabbit at the Alexis Park trying to social engineering his way in, only to have his wife show up with an encrypted golden ticket. It ends up with her putting me to bed in the Venetian..the Zuul to my Vinz Clortho.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 10/05/2017 1:25am at .

  9. #19
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    So here's my bias, full disclosure. I had the luxury of attending a DEFCON Sky Talk (ie. fancypants unrecorded presentation you need to LINECON for at least an hour to get into, run by DC303 out of Denver, CO, for the uninitiated) about homemade gun smithing and the end of gun control.

    The presenter, whom I can't name (I forget names on purpose), was not only an attorney familiar with state gun laws, but also a DIY gunsmith and enthusiast.

    His presentation was entitled "The Genie is Out of the Bottle", and while most of the talk was related to a video demonstration of DIY shotgun, the preamble of his speech amounted to "gun control regulations are useless in the age of 3D printing".

    He was able to convince me pretty damn hard, man.

    Cody Wilson's tweet upon receiving the Cease and Desist from the US State Department in 2013 (4 years ago, ancient history!!)

    "#DEFCAD is going dark at the request of the SOS Department of Defense Trade Controls. Some shapes are more dangerous than others."


    Remind me sometime to tell you how my wife got me into a DC303 party in 2005. It involved a very intoxicated Rabbit at the Alexis Park trying to social engineering his way in, only to have his wife show up with an encrypted golden ticket. It ends up with her putting me to bed in the Venetian..the Zuul to my Vinz Clortho.
    You need to get better aquatinted with printer technology and the materials out there. Yes, the technology on both fronts has exploded and will continue to do so. Today, it's still extremely expensive. It takes expensive machines to build at low tolerances. Home hobbyist machines are a joke. My $2500 machine sits in the box in a corner where it belongs. The real work is sent out to companies that have the machines capable of producing good prototypes and those still require secondary work.

    I'm sure you'll argue further but I do this type of work for a living.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_printed_firearms

    Looks like the DefDist AR-15 receiver is pretty durable for a DIY project.



    Hey now look at this...this should answer BKR's question...yes, even all the littlest, most delicate bits of any firearm can be 3D printed in metal.

    Solid Concepts out of Texas has made a fully functional M1911 with 3D printed parts. Now, this was NOT CHEAP or DIY, but that will change with time.

    Texas company makes metal gun with 3-D printer: http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/08/tech/i...gun/index.html



    Not one mention of the secondary work required after printing. Every thread had to be tapped. Every pin hole reamed. All support material removed from every overhang. Then there are the slide surfaces and we don't see the bore. Springs?

    There was a good deal of secondary work that went into that project. On almost every part.

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