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  1. #101
    hungryjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    You'll always be an engineer to me. Let's take off our engineering hats and put on detective fedoras. I want to find out more about the gap between what the media is reporting Defense Distributed CAN do, what they can do according to realists, and why there's a difference...

    ...does WIRED have a bias against guns? I actually believe they do, which is kind of where all this came from. WIRED is telling me Defense Distributed is changing the rules NOW...DEFCON talks told me that none of that matters because the age of serialized guns is over anyway.

    ...is Defense Distributed FOS??? Is the most important (first?) Supreme Court case ever involving home modeling guns really about to be argued on behalf of "techno-anarchists"????? Doesn't that kind of bode poorly for gun rights enthusiasts?

    I knew this would be a messy suptopic when I made a crazy claim..that I'd read in a legitimate periodical. Ever since the pack turned on me, I've been looking backwards trying to figure out why these crazy kids are not only trying to perfect the art of building unregistered guns at home..but about to fight a USSC case for the right to tell you how to do it.
    If I remember correctly a big part of the government's concern had to do with file sharing for the parts themselves. The 3D model format. I may be wrong and confusing this with another case.

    Pssssst

    I do 3D modeling too! Many times it's for printed parts.

    end dick wave

  2. #102
    submessenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Can you have Phrost call up Tom Kagan or whoever and have them add a scoreboard that shows the current "goal post"?

    I notice there's always a claim of "moving goalposts", but never any discussion of what the goal was.

    My goal is pretty simple, discuss the emerging gun-fabricating capabilities of 3D printing technology. One goal, not moving.
    I've just given you two, in as many posts.

    1) You claimed "printers are already out in the market specifically designed to build AR-15s stock to barrel." When queried on the barrel, you came up with a couple of handguns, which are very specifically NOT AR-15s.
    2) You claimed "You can order every single fucking thing online except for the lower receiver with the serial number," which is demonstrably false. I called you out on it, and you proceeded to tell me your conjecturing of what can be obtained on the black market.

  3. #103
    submessenger's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Honestly, I should trollshido this entire thread. Leaving just the actual content would whittle us down to about a dozen posts that would lose all context if all your shitposting was removed. "The centre cannot hold." But, this is Cassius' playground, I'll let him decide.

  4. #104
    hungryjoe's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Back on topic.

    While prices come down and technology improves the real advances, IMO are the advances in materials available. They're making parts for surgical implants from Inconel now. Alloys not readily available today will be in the near future. New stuff.

    Then there's the polymers. That's exploded in the past decade.

    The ability to print dissimilar materials into one part. Think overmolding.

    Still, today, secondary operations are usually required. It's a trade in itself with any but the smaller printing companies.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by submessenger View Post
    You can order a lower online. It has to be shipped to an FFL, and you have to pay them a handling fee (usually like $25) and pass a Brady check, but you can most certainly order a lower online (or a full firearm, for that matter. I've purchased a lower and a few handguns that way).
    See, everybody here knew that except WRabbit.

    But yours was not "untraceable".

    Unless you follow Devil's procedure.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  6. #106
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by submessenger View Post
    Honestly, I should trollshido this entire thread. Leaving just the actual content would whittle us down to about a dozen posts that would lose all context if all your shitposting was removed. "The centre cannot hold." But, this is Cassius' playground, I'll let him decide.
    I like Cassius' work.
    I just don't like making him work.

    or as a wise man once said
    penis

    I do think it is funny that I went slightly into fantasy, but just slightly with my claims and no one batted an eye or thought twice. People claim and have videos of the pistol I mentioned printing, assembled, and then shooting it... but ... just call me skeptical for now.
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Slamming the man in the bottom position from time to time keeps everybody on their toes and discourages butt scooting stupidity.

  7. #107
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    So wait, I'm full of ****, or Defense Distributed and WIRED are full of ****?

    Remember, I'm appealing to THE AUTHORITIES now. Experts 3D gun making, which you are not, made the claims. You're the supposed gunsmith who doesn't know **** about Defense Distributed, in a thread about gun control

    You haven't done anything to invalidate their claims, have you? At least Joe asked for video proof of their October 1 release...he seems interested in figuring out precisely what they can do in 2017. That's probably the machinist in him.

    You might have missed it because you don't read or watch the materials...serious thread Devil. It's not for arguing, logic, or sad trollfest. Tis' for science and engineering discussion about groundbreaking homemade 3D weapons.
    Provide details. You made the claim.

    I willing to be wrong how about you?
    Not trolling, either.

    What I think is going on hs people who have something to sell are trying to to sell it.

    The whole get around gun control techno Anarchist thing is just a marketing ploy.

    Somebody has to put the gun together show me how they produce a barrel that can handle the pressure from 556 Nato round. A rifled barrel.

    Now if you want to go the route of saying well the lower is really the gun that's all that matters, not gonna pass.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  8. #108
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    What if it's homemade? There are online black markets, and I have no doubt there's already a market for homemade, unregistered AR-15 parts. I'd whip out Tor right now and find one...nope, no abyss staring tonight.

    People thought buying drugs or other illegal **** online was novel..wait until people start manufacturing firearm parts at home.

    Crappy AR-15 lowers with no serial numbers might already be a cottage industry. Thousands of Ghost Gunner units have been in the wild since 2013, after all.
    I got news for you there are tens of thousands if not more of AR-15 lowers floating around out there.

    And it's easy to grind a serial number off.

    Not that it really matters if it's got a serial number on it.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  9. #109
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    I'll stop now I'm not an expert.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  10. #110
    W. Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I got news for you there are tens of thousands if not more of AR-15 lowers floating around out there.

    And it's easy to grind a serial number off.

    Not that it really matters if it's got a serial number on it.
    Serial numbers still matter, but I think you brought up an interesting point. According to the claims about Ghost Gunner circa 2014, you can make..what...8 receivers a day with 1 GG, or multiples of it with units working in parallel. That's fast for making illegal versions of anything. With 4 machines, can build almost 12,000 receivers in one year. PROFIT!

    So, what happens when the market for AR-15 receivers gets flooded with poor 3D copies? OR, just a lot of unserialized ones?

    The whole idea of serialization becomes useless in the long run with this tech. Serial numbers only make sense when you can trust them and they're unique. Grinding them off requires you obtain a registered gun first.

    What about duplicating an existing serial number, or customizing your own with this tech? You can buy a real AR-15, replace it's receiver with a 3D version with no serial number (or someone else's). Or you carve "BKR" with a heart on it.

    Maybe now the State Department's crackdown makes sense. It's not so much about building guns at home, which is what Defense Distributed is using as their shield at the SCOTUS, the 1st Amendment thing (free speech). It's about limiting the bloom in illegal weapons parts and black markets this technology represents. This is why there's was an export control shutdown on DefDist. ITAR. It all clicks now.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 10/06/2017 1:26am at .

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