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  1. #381
    Bneterasedmynam's Avatar
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    The republicans are actually somewhat siding with the democrats on bump stocks now.

  2. #382
    Diesel_tke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bneterasedmynam View Post
    The republicans are actually somewhat siding with the democrats on bump stocks now.
    You are not going to find too many people, even the ones the own them, that are going to go against banning them. They sold out really quick because people just want to have something that is banned. They don't care if they won't be able to take them out to the range because they aren't going to use them any way. Probably won't even take them out of the box. And the bumpstock people will immediately go to their next product which has already probably been in the works for a while waiting for these to get banned.

    ****, I don't think the bumpstock people even thought it would stay on the market as long as it did.
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  3. #383
    W. Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_tke View Post
    Yeah but your crazy state laws wouldn't amount to "serious federal restrictions for purchasing, transporting, or using tannerite" as you stated before. The laws are less restrictive than regular gun purchases. I can literally go to the store and buy tannerite without having to have a background check or anything. Yes, their are some regulations about transporting, the same as firearms or alcohol for that matter. That stuff is easy to get, easy to use, and has hardly any oversight involved.
    I'll just post the Wiki page on the current landscape, but Tannerite is illegal on Federal land in at least 5 states, due to their ability to start wildfires. It's also been banned for purchase in Maryland for the last 5 years.

    Like I said, availability and acceptable use varies, but there is definitely a whole webwork of federal and state restrictions. Florida is not New Jersey or Maryland when it comes to this stuff.

    Once you mix it, you can't even store it on private property without following a whole slew of explosives regulations. So, easy to purchase some places like Florida, sure...but once purchased it's a different story altogether.

    If you make targets using this stuff, you're not allowed to leave it piled around, stack them in a building or vehicle, or move them...some people do actually buy and mix and prepare this stuff to be used as improved explosives intended to harm others. Militias are known to purchase and train with it...that's how Timothy McVeigh learned.

    In the United States, ATF regulations allow the two components to be legally purchased, since neither one is an explosive by itself.[6] ATF advises: "Persons manufacturing explosives for their own personal, non-business use only (e.g., personal target practice) are not required to have a Federal explosives license or permit." A prohibited person (a person barred by federal law from buying or owning a firearm) cannot legally possess mixed explosives. Explosives for lawful target practice must be used once mixed: any transport, storage or commercial use of mixed explosives falls under federal explosives laws,[7] and cannot be transported in mixed form without following strict regulations including insurance, packaging, signage on the transport vehicle, storage magazines, etc.

    Various regulations also govern the storage of unmixed Tannerite. As oxidizers and combustibles, the unmixed components still have some shipping restrictions in the United States.[2]

    A Maryland law intended specifically to ban the sale or ownership of Tannerite became effective on October 1, 2012, and expanded the definition of an explosive to include, in addition to "bombs and destructive devices designed to operate by chemical, mechanical, or explosive action", "two or more components that are advertised and sold together with instructions on how to combine the components to create an explosive".[8][9]

    On August 5, 2013, the United States Forest Service (USFS) and the U.S. Attorney's office in Denver announced that the USFS is implementing a closure order to prohibit the use of unpermitted explosives, particularly exploding targets using tannerite, on all USFS lands in the Rocky Mountain Region. This region includes national forests and grasslands in the states of Colorado, Wyoming, Kansas, Nebraska, and South Dakota. According to the USFS, at least 16 wildfires in the Western states had been associated with exploding targets. It cost more than $33 million to extinguish the fires.[10] Such a ban has already been implemented by the USFS in Washington, Oregon and Montana. The Bureau of Land Management has banned the use of all exploding targets on BLM land in Utah.[11]

    Previously, only the Hasting's Cutoff BLM land was affected, a popular shooting spot an hour outside of Salt Lake City, UT, which had become abused with the regular use of Tannerite and other explosives. The Bureau of Land Management was also reported to be preparing a Fire Prevention Order that would ban exploding targets on BLM-administered land in the state of Colorado.[12][13][14]
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 10/05/2017 12:41pm at .

  4. #384
    W. Rabbit's Avatar
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    More background on Federal smackdowns on exploding targets over the last few years.

    http://www.denverpost.com/2013/08/05...s-in-5-states/

    Apparently Tannerite may also be illegal for personal use in Tennessee, Nebraska, and possibly Pennsylvania, but I have to research further. It some state legislatures support explosive targets for personal use, others just classify them as dangerous substances (even unmixed) and not excepted for personal use. A lot of the justification for banning personal use is tied to Federal efforts against wildfires (which have caused more than $30M in damage paid for by US taxpayers).

    Don't know the status of this bill, or whether you can legally use Tannerite for targets in TN: http://archive.knoxnews.com/news/sta...53556481.html/

    Nebraska is pretty harsh: http://engc.us/wp-content/uploads/20...get_Letter.pdf

    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 10/05/2017 12:52pm at .

  5. #385
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    "Official: Vegas shooter booked room in Chicago during Lollapalooza"
    LAS VEGAS (AP) - A full two months before he opened fire on a country music concert in Las Vegas from a 32nd-floor room of a hotel and killed 58 people, Stephen Paddock booked a room at a Chicago hotel that overlooks a park where a major music festival was held that weekend, a law enforcement official said Thursday.

    The official said that law enforcement found no evidence that Paddock ever came to Chicago during the weekend of Lollapalooza -- a music festival that attracts hundreds of thousands of people. The official, who was not authorized to discuss the investigation of Paddock's movements, spoke only on condition of anonymity after being briefed on the investigation.
    Source:
    http://www.fox29.com/news/tmz-stephe...vegas-massacre

    Woah

    This is looking kinda creepy and lone wolf goal wild exxtreme ...
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    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
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  6. #386
    Diesel_tke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    More background on Federal smackdowns on exploding targets over the last few years.

    http://www.denverpost.com/2013/08/05...s-in-5-states/

    Apparently Tannerite may also be illegal for personal use in Tennessee, Nebraska, and possibly Pennsylvania, but I have to research further. It some state legislatures support explosive targets for personal use, others just classify them as dangerous substances (even unmixed) and not excepted for personal use. A lot of the justification for banning personal use is tied to Federal efforts against wildfires (which have caused more than $30M in damage paid for by US taxpayers).

    Don't know the status of this bill, or whether you can legally use Tannerite for targets in TN: http://archive.knoxnews.com/news/sta...53556481.html/

    Nebraska is pretty harsh: http://engc.us/wp-content/uploads/20...get_Letter.pdf

    Don't waste your research chops on this. Their are tons and tons and tons of regulations and laws on the books about all kinds of stuff. But the fact of the matter is, you can readily buy this stuff, do what you want with it, and no one gives a **** about it. Sure, if you get pulled over for something else and this stuff is found, someone MAY say something to you about it. Probably not. There is no task force running around checking to see when you mixed up your tanerite and what you did with it.
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  7. #387
    Diesel_tke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    "Official: Vegas shooter booked room in Chicago during Lollapalooza"

    Source:
    http://www.fox29.com/news/tmz-stephe...vegas-massacre

    Woah

    This is looking kinda creepy and lone wolf goal wild exxtreme ...
    Which is starting to look less like he was targeting country music fans (trump supporters per Devil) and more just towards a large amount of people. Pretty crazy.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.

  8. #388
    W. Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_tke View Post
    Which is starting to look less like he was targeting country music fans (trump supporters per Devil) and more just towards a large amount of people. Pretty crazy.
    The guy had money, means to travel, and VIP suites all over town. He had homes in Mesquite, Reno, and in Florida.

    He had his pick of targets over a long period of time, although one detail stuck out...he was not originally able to get his usual suite on the 32nd floor the day he checked in...he had to wait a few days to get it access to it.

    That couple of days might mean he didn't have all the time he wanted to prepare. He needed time to get all the suitcases and guns and equipment up there, not to mention ammunition. He needed time to get the cameras set up properly.

    He clearly chose that would be the place before the day of the shooting, but may not have counted on his ideal perch being unavailable on Day 1...he must have rushed to get everything in place by the concert, and maybe that's why the AN was never used.

    50 lbs of something collected so far...AN can be mixed with a number of different fuel sources to become explosive. I wonder if he originally intended to stack all that to kill SWAT when they found him, so he could escape. But he never got to set up whatever booby trap he intended...the music was starting.

    I read somewhere he fired over 200 rounds into the hallway when the room was first approached. That speaks to self-preservation, not necessarily suicide by cop...I wonder if that's why the Sheriff is suggesting he originally planned to escape (ie kill responding officers with ammo and bombs, then flee).
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 10/05/2017 1:49pm at .

  9. #389
    Kovacs's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was wondering what he was doing with a rifle with a cqb sight and a fore-grip, that wouldn't have been a lot of use shooting as far as he did, not compared to using a bipod and correct scope anyway. It looks like it was facing back into the room in the direction of threat in one picture as well.

    However I fully admit making such judgements from a handful of still photos is making immense leaps, Facebook and other forums are just going off the hook with mental **** as we already know.

    Saying that; I really want to know what the evidence is for his planning to escape. Personally I don't buy it, he's obviously not trained or experienced in tactical ninjering but he's not stupid either. There's no way he would have been leaving that building, let alone that suite without cuffs or a body-bag. Unless the evidence is really juicy, I'd vote that he wanted a last stand or an extended stand-off and continue his rampage until he was stopped.

    If he wanted to kill people and get away with it there's a million better ways to do it.
    Ne Obliviscaris

  10. #390
    Diesel_tke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kovacs View Post
    Unless the evidence is really juicy, I'd vote that he wanted a last stand or an extended stand-off and continue his rampage until he was stopped.
    That's my vote as well.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.

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