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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMR View Post
    I had a book that is a compendium of article written by Kano on various journals. Unfortunately I lost it but it's this:
    http://www.lunieditrice.com/FONDAMENTI-DEL-JUDO
    (in italian, I don't know if there is an english edition).

    In one of the articles he explains his decision to limit ne-waza in competition, after in a tournament the team of a less famous school inflicted a big defeat to the Kodokan team, largely by pulling them to the ground and being very trained in ne-waza.
    I think that his decision was a bit contested at the time since he spends some time to explain that he wasn't changing the rules just so that his team could win, and he gave various explanations.
    However Kano's general assumption was that it was possible for a less skilled player to train just for ground fighting and then hiding his lack of skill in nage-waza by just dragging the opponent to the ground, hence my sentence: "This pissed off Kano as it went against his ideal of a perfect throw, and he saw this as a cheap route to success in competition, so he changed the rules in order to limit this tendency"
    Ne waza is not limited in competition, certainly not back then, especially compared to now.

    How to enter into ground work was made more strict. That carried on into modern era as need to do a "skillful" entry to groundwork, although skillful does not mean a lot in many circumstances.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  2. #32
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So, just to throw this out there, this is an extract from a thread from what, 2009, in which the whole fusen ryu/ Tanabe Mataemon, origins of ne waza in judo, KOSEN Judo rules, etc, was a hot topic of discussion.

    Matt Phillips eventually sorted it all out, more or less, but this thread shows early genesis of the process. I was very active over on Judo Forum (post-sale by the founder, after which it went seriously down-hill), and there were people there who were real researchers, spoke/wrote Japanese, etc. as sources.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  3. #33
    BKR's Avatar
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    BJJ eastern europe...

    Good dog alive, I google "kosen" and the first thing that comes up besides wiki is an article on BJJEE..
    Hilarious, parts of the article were cribbed straight from Wiki entry on KOSEN Judo...

    Even wiki contradicts itself. However, here is an article with interesting historical notes, and references to actual Japanese sources.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaichihy%C5%8De_Kanemitsu
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  4. #34
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMR View Post
    I had a book that is a compendium of article written by Kano on various journals. Unfortunately I lost it but it's this:
    http://www.lunieditrice.com/FONDAMENTI-DEL-JUDO
    (in italian, I don't know if there is an english edition).

    In one of the articles he explains his decision to limit ne-waza in competition, after in a tournament the team of a less famous school inflicted a big defeat to the Kodokan team, largely by pulling them to the ground and being very trained in ne-waza.
    I think that his decision was a bit contested at the time since he spends some time to explain that he wasn't changing the rules just so that his team could win, and he gave various explanations.
    However Kano's general assumption was that it was possible for a less skilled player to train just for ground fighting and then hiding his lack of skill in nage-waza by just dragging the opponent to the ground, hence my sentence: "This pissed off Kano as it went against his ideal of a perfect throw, and he saw this as a cheap route to success in competition, so he changed the rules in order to limit this tendency"
    I can't find an English version. Can't read Japanese, either...
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  5. #35

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    If ever I find that book again I'll try to translate at least a part of the relevant article.

  6. #36
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMR View Post
    If ever I find that book again I'll try to translate at least a part of the relevant article.
    That would be interesting.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

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