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  1. #51

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ermghoti View Post
    Aikido arguments fail immediately when pressure tested in a live environment.
    I disagree.
    Kote Gaeshi works fine in live environments.
    So do other techniques within the various Aikido curriculums.
    I remain particularly impressed with the Aikido community's falling practice, which I think may help for real world banana peeling as much as Judo style falling practice.
    And falling rather than fighting is a much more frequent serious danger to human beings in real life.
    Aikido people often do not train applying their counter-offense techniques in stress environments, and therefore may get "lost" when brought into those stress environments, due to a lack of experience with environments where people are trying to cause real harm to each other or otherwise playing hard with the intention to "win".
    Carlson Gracie used to say that if you punch a Jiu-Jitsu black belt in the face well, he becomes a brown belt, and you can keep punching him all the way back down to a white belt.
    Gracie Jiu-Jitsu black belts have gotten struck in the face many thousands of times by the time they are black belts, but a good one still will drop them a belt.
    And the same goes for Aikidoka, Judoka, and everyone else.

    Also, Aikido players practice their techniques in environments that are focusing on a different leg on the table than combat sports prioritize in practice:
    1) Hard or Confrontational styles - Overcome your foe by opposing their force with superior force. Hurting your opponent is understood to be a part of the process.
    2) Soft or Blending styles - Overcome your foe by blending with their force, adding complementary force that makes use of the opponents force. Your opponent will now be hurt by not only your force but his own.
    3) Avoidance styles such as Aikido - Avoid and diffuse conflicts. Learn to fall and roll out of some potentially damaging joint locks by not resisting them directly. Apply locks and pins without the intention to hurt the other person. Fighting and violence are undesirable. Avoid hurting anyone.

    Can Aikido ever be useful in an encounter where someone is trying to be violent with you?
    If a teenager or other child was trying to cause me harm and I did not feel my life was endangered (could be a serious mistake on my part),
    I would certainly be adopting Aikido style attitude and Aikido style "get out of the way" of the attack approaches rather than either hitting the acting out minor with my appendages or the planet.
    The most serious counter offense I might launch would be to simply redirect their offensive capabilities, move them out of areas I did not wish them in, and if I had to, gently restrain them with the least force possible and least chance of harm possible to them.
    I recognize that to underestimate any threat is to risk harm to oneself.
    I also make the disclaimer that I am not really an Aikidoka, but have some experience in other forms of Jiu-Jitsu, namely Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and Judo, and a general study of the history and comparative analysis of Jiu-Jitsu, and other grappling arts.
    And when my colleagues from Judo who cross train in other forms of Jiu-Jitsu explain their points of view, or show techniques, I listen to what they have to say.
    Last edited by WFMurphyPhD; 9/23/2017 11:20am at .

  2. #52
    ermghoti's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    I disagree.
    Kote Gaeshi works fine in live environments.
    So do other techniques within the various Aikido curriculums.
    I remain particularly impressed with the Aikido community's falling practice, which I think may help for real world banana peeling as much as Judo style falling practice.
    And falling rather than fighting is a much more frequent serious danger to human beings in real life.
    Aikido people often do not train applying their counter-offense techniques in stress environments, and therefore may get "lost" when brought into those stress environments, due to a lack of experience with environments where people are trying to cause real harm to each other or otherwise playing hard with the intention to "win".
    Carlson Gracie used to say that if you punch a Jiu-Jitsu black belt in the face well, he becomes a brown belt, and you can keep punching him all the way back down to a white belt.
    Gracie Jiu-Jitsu black belts have gotten struck in the face many thousands of times by the time they are black belts, but a good one still will drop them a belt.
    And the same goes for Aikidoka, Judoka, and everyone else.

    Also, Aikido players practice their techniques in environments that are focusing on a different leg on the table than combat sports prioritize in practice:
    1) Hard or Confrontational styles - Overcome your foe by opposing their force with superior force. Hurting your opponent is understood to be a part of the process.
    2) Soft or Blending styles - Overcome your foe by blending with their force, adding complementary force that makes use of the opponents force. Your opponent will now be hurt by not only your force but his own.
    3) Avoidance styles such as Aikido - Avoid and diffuse conflicts. Learn to fall and roll out of some potentially damaging joint locks by not resisting them directly. Apply locks and pins without the intention to hurt the other person. Fighting and violence are undesirable. Avoid hurting anyone.

    Can Aikido ever be useful in an encounter where someone is trying to be violent with you?
    If a teenager or other child was trying to cause me harm and I did not feel my life was endangered (could be a serious mistake on my part),
    I would certainly be adopting Aikido style attitude and Aikido style "get out of the way" of the attack approaches rather than either hitting the acting out minor with my appendages or the planet.
    The most serious counter offense I might launch would be to simply redirect their offensive capabilities, move them out of areas I did not wish them in, and if I had to, gently restrain them with the least force possible and least chance of harm possible to them.
    I recognize that to underestimate any threat is to risk harm to oneself.
    I also make the disclaimer that I am not really an Aikidoka, but have some experience in other forms of Jiu-Jitsu, namely Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and Judo, and a general study of the history and comparative analysis of Jiu-Jitsu, and other grappling arts.
    And when my colleagues from Judo who cross train in other forms of Jiu-Jitsu explain their points of view, or show techniques, I listen to what they have to say.
    That's not what I posted about, lol.
    "Systema, which means, 'the system'..."

    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
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    Why is it so goddamn hard to find a video of it? I've seen videos I'm pretty sure are alien spacecraft. But still no good Krav.
    Quote Originally Posted by Plasma
    At the point, I must act! You see my rashguard saids "Jiu Jitsu vs The World" and "The World" was standing in front me teaching Anti-Grappling in a school I help run.
    [quote=SoulMechanic]Thank you, not dying really rewarding in more ways than I can express.[/[quote]

  3. #53

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ermghoti View Post
    That's not what I posted about, lol.
    Sorry about that. I don't always follow the threads closely, and I only log in occasionally.

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