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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    Break dancers are like a duck to water with bjj.
    You shut up before we get a Tyler Perry movie from this idea. There would probably be an actual duck involved.
    "Systema, which means, 'the system'..."

    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
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    Why is it so goddamn hard to find a video of it? I've seen videos I'm pretty sure are alien spacecraft. But still no good Krav.
    Quote Originally Posted by Plasma
    At the point, I must act! You see my rashguard saids "Jiu Jitsu vs The World" and "The World" was standing in front me teaching Anti-Grappling in a school I help run.
    [quote=SoulMechanic]Thank you, not dying really rewarding in more ways than I can express.[/[quote]

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Well, you won't get much better at it doing aikido...if at all...just get some of those aikido guys to participate in Judo randori and you'll see what I mean.
    Coming back to this thread, recently I've seen some Tomiki Aikido guys in tournament whose actual Judo-ish movements are bad.

    Trying to find any of the 'Wing Chun is similar to Goju' supporting footage and all Im seeing is 'cause Fujian origins.' Im now thinking its most likely ancesteral fanboyism of kung fu guys rather than based on reality based sparring, since, you know, Wing Chun is teh deadly.

  3. #63
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMR View Post
    Re: aikido falls VS judo falls
    The first instructor I had explained the difference between judo and aikido falls this way (to a boy who was starting judo and aikido contemporaneously, and asked why in judo people don't usually go back on their feet after the falls):

    1) In aikido, tori does some wristlock to uke, who therefore "falls" rolling away to avoid the wristlock. The fall is therefore quite horizontal, and uke is suposed to roll and go back on his feet.
    2) In judo, tori lifts uke and then throw him down more or less vertically, or reaps but then pushes uke down (like in o-soto or o-uchi). Often tori falls over uke.. The fall is therefore vertical, and uke cannot realistically "roll" back to his feet.

    I think there is a lot of thruth in this explanation, and in fact I came to think that standing up from zempo kaiten ukemi is a technical error, even if most people do it.
    No, it's not a technical error, Judo has throws from which one can roll and stand. Such falling is also useful outside of Judo, like falling down stairs, off of bike, horse, etc.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Gymnastics, Acrobatics, Parkour, and Capoeira all teach some serious falling and body in space skills that become useful in grappling.
    makes me wonder if there's going to be some Brazilian art where Cap and BJJ are merged into one some day? Assuming there isnt something Ive not heard about already.

    In fact Im certain theres a Street Fighter Five character whose basically a BJJ girl whose got some Capoeira moves

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimjonghng View Post
    Coming back to this thread, recently I've seen some Tomiki Aikido guys in tournament whose actual Judo-ish movements are bad.

    Trying to find any of the 'Wing Chun is similar to Goju' supporting footage and all Im seeing is 'cause Fujian origins.' Im now thinking its most likely ancesteral fanboyism of kung fu guys rather than based on reality based sparring, since, you know, Wing Chun is teh deadly.
    You get better at what you practice correctly and sufficiently.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

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  6. #66
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    If the purse was large enough, Gordon Ryan and Garry Tonon would compete under dance off over time rules.
    They have competed in Sapateiro several times.
    Why do you call them salty?
    Salty means mad. I assume they would be annoyed that they have to dance off with break dancers vs just choking or locking them up.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    No, it's not a technical error, Judo has throws from which one can roll and stand. Such falling is also useful outside of Judo, like falling down stairs, off of bike, horse, etc.
    I understand this, but the most common falls in judo similar to zempo are falls from seoi nage, or harai goshi, or similar, where rolling doesn't make sense. Now if one drills zempo staying down 9 times, and standing up 1, I'm okay, but normally it's 99 standing, and 1 stayng down to show to the white belt.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by kimjonghng View Post
    Coming back to this thread, recently I've seen some Tomiki Aikido guys in tournament whose actual Judo-ish movements are bad.

    Trying to find any of the 'Wing Chun is similar to Goju' supporting footage and all Im seeing is 'cause Fujian origins.' Im now thinking its most likely ancesteral fanboyism of kung fu guys rather than based on reality based sparring, since, you know, Wing Chun is teh deadly.
    To be fair to the tomiki guys, I don't think you can grab the jacket as part of their rule set, so their movement is just different overall.

    Do I think judo is more useful? Absolutely.

    But at least they are actually putting their skills to the test in some fashion as opposed to other aikido schools who just declare victory and go home before anyone can call them out.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by BJMills View Post
    To be fair to the tomiki guys, I don't think you can grab the jacket as part of their rule set, so their movement is just different overall.

    Do I think judo is more useful? Absolutely.

    But at least they are actually putting their skills to the test in some fashion as opposed to other aikido schools who just declare victory and go home before anyone can call them out.
    I have been told by the Tomiki Judoka that Tomiki put the Aikido randori in place to:
    (1) bring in the Judo randori style training into Aikido, since Tomiki was also a high level Judoka.
    (2) keep Japanese university funding, which gave preference to activities with a competitive element, such as Kendo, Judo, and Sumo.
    I have been further told that Tomiki's official Japanese Aikido successor was less a Judo man but was a proficient Kendo person, and subsequently steered Tomiki Aikido back towards more knife/sword style Aikido.
    Whereas, Karl Geis, Tomiki's American successor (whether self declared or otherwise) preferred Judo randori, and Aikido practice to follow more of a Judo perspective, with more Judo foot positioning, Judo to be used at close distance and the Aikido to be used when greater distances where preferable or available (get away from me, stay away from me), and to remember the Aikido style techniques which may be useful but are avoided in sport Judo.
    I have been told that Karl Geis did not think much of the Aikido competitive randori, although his school did participate in Judo competition (and although Karl Geis did not require Judo competition of his students).
    The older Judoka in the Sarasota area tend to either come from the Rene Duchesne line, or the Karl Geis line, or came from Cuba.
    My own Judo lineage is primarily from the Rene side, but over time, after Rene died around 15 years ago, and now more recently after Karl died, the older Judoka in my area tend to no longer have the rivalries or separation they once had now that they are all semi-retired.
    So, I enjoy getting time with any of them, and getting to talk to them, hear their point of view, and be a student in their rooms when they are willing to come back on the mats and show something.
    Last edited by WFMurphyPhD; 9/08/2017 3:59pm at .

  10. #70
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMR View Post
    I understand this, but the most common falls in judo similar to zempo are falls from seoi nage, or harai goshi, or similar, where rolling doesn't make sense. Now if one drills zempo staying down 9 times, and standing up 1, I'm okay, but normally it's 99 standing, and 1 stayng down to show to the white belt.
    I can't help other people's poor coaching/training habits.

    Also, it's entirely possible that you don't understand that you can take a solid fall doing zempo kaiten and then stand up. In fact, that's how to do it correctly, IMO.

    But there are variations, and one can learn variations on zempo kaiten ukemi waza (or whatever they call it in aikido).
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

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