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  1. #11
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myn View Post
    Thank you Mr. Browning,

    Is a waiver all that's needed in all states to remove liability, or just in some of them? Which additional requirements do you know of to protect participants from legal consequences?

    Thanks so much for your time,

    V/R

    Myn
    Varies state to state and sometimes, depending on the situation, no waiver will help you.
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Slamming the man in the bottom position from time to time keeps everybody on their toes and discourages butt scooting stupidity.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    Varies state to state and sometimes, depending on the situation, no waiver will help you.
    What do martial arts gyms have then that allow sparring? What specifically allows sanctioned fighting in these states?

    V/R

    Myn

  3. #13
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    insurance.
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Slamming the man in the bottom position from time to time keeps everybody on their toes and discourages butt scooting stupidity.

  4. #14
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    and **** ... I can't remember the term but it applies to sky diving, scuba and other extreme sports/hobbies too. It assumes the person being instructed understands that the activity is risky and could result in harm or death.
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Slamming the man in the bottom position from time to time keeps everybody on their toes and discourages butt scooting stupidity.

  5. #15

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well as a general principal a waiver cannot make illegal activity legal. For example a waiver would not make dueling or death matches legal.

    While a sporting event MMA type waiver would work in most states and under most conditions I refuse to say the word "all states" because I don't practice in all states. Only in Connecticut.

    I'll have to avoid the other questions since refreshing my recollection concerning this portion of the law would take hours, and I'm already overcommitted to the Seth Rich thread.

    Sorry, I stopped providing free legal advice to strangers years ago.
    Last edited by Sam Browning; 8/10/2017 11:24pm at .

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    and **** ... I can't remember the term but it applies to sky diving, scuba and other extreme sports/hobbies too. It assumes the person being instructed understands that the activity is risky and could result in harm or death.
    It's called the assumption of the risk doctrine, and while fairly predictable, I'm sure at least several states have limited it extent. And no, I will not be doing free research on this topic.

  7. #17
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Browning View Post
    It's called the assumption of the risk doctrine, and while fairly predictable, I'm sure at least several states have limited it extent. And no, I will not be doing free research on this topic.
    Giving him the title gets him(/her?) closer to the knowledge than I managed to do. So yeah, you are still an invaluable treasure and resource to have around. Even if you don't mean to be.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHa
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Slamming the man in the bottom position from time to time keeps everybody on their toes and discourages butt scooting stupidity.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Browning View Post
    It's called the assumption of the risk doctrine, and while fairly predictable, I'm sure at least several states have limited it extent. And no, I will not be doing free research on this topic.
    Your input is always appreciated - you're a wealth of information on this forum, and I for one am really glad that you're still here :D

    V/R

    Myn

  9. #19

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    So, I will, since I am not currently a practicing attorney, provide SOME free advice, not legal though, just from experience and research with the law.

    The assumption of risk doctrine applies fairly commonly to most martial arts and contact sports across the board, and in 2013 the California Supreme Court even extended it further to include certain other activities. HOWEVER, there is a GIANT caveat that you need to be aware of with regards to assumption of risk: It ONLY applies to those risks that a reasonable practitioner of that activity could and should foresee happening within the scope of the activity.
    So for example, in Judo, leglocks are illegal in competition and generally forbidden in randori, so damage to someone's leg from a too fast heel-hook because people were playing around that day, would not be covered under assumption of risk. The liability waivers most insurance companies have MA schools issue are an attempt to expand that assumption of risk to cover ANY POSSIBLE foreseeable injury. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. That's why you have insurance.

    Former insurance company employee and long time martial artist here, that's my 2 cents on it. Take it for whatever it's worth.

  10. #20
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    and **** ... I can't remember the term but it applies to sky diving, scuba and other extreme sports/hobbies too. It assumes the person being instructed understands that the activity is risky and could result in harm or death.
    Those sorts of waivers usually have wording on them to the effect you just described. I know the ones I sign(ed) for Judo do.

    The other thing about waiver, and this is from the perspective of running tournaments (Judo).

    The waiver protects, to some degree, for example, the tournament director, referees, etc, that are members of the sanctioning organization, plus other's named on the sanction application (insurance).

    But it only protects them if an accident was due to something other than negligence.

    For example, if I'm the referee, and there is a big gap in the tatami, and I don't stop the match to fix it (or notice it before the match starts), then that waiver won't be worth a damn...

    Because negligence on my part.

    If two guys are in a match, and one gets injured due to the normal application of Judo, then no negligence involved.

    No sort of waiver will stop you from getting sued, and all the funtastic stuff that goes along with that.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

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