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  1. #11
    DCS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Burns View Post
    Aikido, aikijutsu, jiujitsu, BJJ, Krav Maga... They all use the same basic techniques and principles but simply in different environments. If you ask anyone who studies any of those arts they can affirm that the techniques are based on the principles of joint manipulation that involve skeletal structure throughout the body rather than just the one spot where a person is touching.

    ...

    Look up videos of ikajo, nikajo, sankajo. From them you should see plenty of examples of how twisting of the bones in the arms affects the ballence of the feet and spine.
    Generating kuzushi via commutative locking is no big deal nor rocket science,

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    Generating kuzushi via commutative locking is no big deal nor rocket science,
    I never said it was rocket science, just that it is an actual thing that is actually real and is based on scientific principles and is one of the focuses of Aikijutsu arts.

  3. #13

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    Then sorry for suggesting you have no interest in MA. (Note "fighting" arts)
    You have no interest in joint lock related arts. Perhaps you have experienced some of various aikijutsu arts, but clearly your interest is limited to fist-fighting and that sort of thing.
    Your misunderstanding is the term "Martial Arts." Somehow you are limiting the term "martial" to fighting. The term "martial" refers to "war," not just "fighting." If you take away the sword from a samurai, then you can clearly have an advantage for someone who has trained as a boxer, who has trained to punch speedily, but give a sword to the boxer, then the advantage goes back to the samurai who has trained to draw his sword and swing it with accuracy more speedily. Limit the fight to a knife fight, and both artists will have major limitations, but the samurai will most likely win because of the knife training. Limit the fight to a gun and put them 20 feet apart from each other and who knows what the outcome will be. It will probably go to the person who knows how to turn off the safety button first.

    My argument from the start has not been a contest of which arts are better than others, but simply that aikijutsu arts are real and they do work effectively for the purpose they were created. And that the "dance" that you see in a demonstration is not the way it looks like in a real situation, because in a real situation the uke would just go straight down with a broken elbow or dislodged shoulder or a smashed head against the concrete or a slit throat. So the choreographed dance with people flying through the air is designed to avoid injury.

    If you want a good example then watch the video in the octagon where BJJ won against whatever style the "Rock" was using before his neck was broken and he died right there. I guarantee that was not choreographed.

    If you took any training in Aikijuts arts and did not see any correlation to how the joints affect other joints, or how one of the most basic techniques ikajo holds the hand but causes your feet to lose balance... then you should go back and pay attention.

    If you want to know which videos give the best demonstrations, then check out the slow motion videos of ikajo, and effective grasping, by James Williams. I think he does a good job of explaining some of that. If you pay attention to the feet of his ukes you will see how the feet come off balance and sometimes the heels lift off the ground standing only on the toes or balancing on just one foot.

    Like DCS said, joint manipulation is not rocket science. So it should be easy to recognize.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    What is so informative about compliant demonstrations and people playing pretend while taking a dive?
    Watch the informative videos by James Williams Nami Ryu. They are informative because he shows things slow motion from different angles and points to specific joints and tendons to explain how they interact.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Burns View Post
    Like DCS said, joint manipulation is not rocket science. So it should be easy to recognize.
    It is also easy to overrate as a viable unbalancing method when it is practised under the uke-nage relationship in kata.

    When used in an alive environment, the results are way less spectacular for the opponent is will try to regain his balance, escape or counter.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    It is also easy to overrate as a viable unbalancing method when it is practised under the uke-nage relationship in kata.

    When used in an alive environment, the results are way less spectacular for the opponent is will try to regain his balance, escape or counter.
    I agree wholeheartedly! You would notice in my previous statements that the spectacular flying through the air is merely the art of rolling to avoid injury, and that in a real life situation it looks as un-spectacular as something falling straight down, cutting with a knife or hitting head against something, etc...

    Obviously any smart attacker is going to attempt a counter or regaining balance, but that takes a second or two giving you time to do what needs to be done. The joint lock or imbalance is never the end result. As I said several times, it is with the intention of ending with the use of a weapon, usually a blade if possible. But a knee to the head while someone is bent over for a second, or pushing them off balance with head against a wall takes less than a second. It only takes me a second to pull my weapon from my pocket. And I, as well as many Aikijutsu artists have a concealed weapons permit.

    I think I mentioned before that, MA is not just a "fighting" art but a "warlike" art that is designed to make use of weapons.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Burns View Post
    I agree wholeheartedly! You would notice in my previous statements that the spectacular flying through the air is merely the art of rolling to avoid injury, and that in a real life situation it looks as un-spectacular as something falling straight down, cutting with a knife or hitting head against something, etc...

    Obviously any smart attacker is going to attempt a counter or regaining balance, but that takes a second or two giving you time to do what needs to be done. The joint lock or imbalance is never the end result. As I said several times, it is with the intention of ending with the use of a weapon, usually a blade if possible. But a knee to the head while someone is bent over for a second, or pushing them off balance with head against a wall takes less than a second. It only takes me a second to pull my weapon from my pocket. And I, as well as many Aikijutsu artists have a concealed weapons permit.

    I think I mentioned before that, MA is not just a "fighting" art but a "warlike" art that is designed to make use of weapons.
    Bitch you cant fight. You're all dumb fucks who like to larp.
    I am pretty sure an actual martial artist would make you cry in a fight.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    Generating kuzushi via commutative locking is no big deal nor rocket science,
    Right, but if all you've ever known is 19th century Japanese "science"...
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Burns View Post
    Watch the informative videos by James Williams Nami Ryu. They are informative because he shows things slow motion from different angles and points to specific joints and tendons to explain how they interact.
    I saw compliant fantasy based role playing being over explained and sold to marks, like WWE wrestling, as something real.



    You still haven't given any evidence to support any of your claims which range from the effectiveness, to the lineage, to the general history btw. Still just some random dude making absurd claims about the style in question and silly claims about other martial arts which make no sense and clearly show your lack of knowledge.
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Slamming the man in the bottom position from time to time keeps everybody on their toes and discourages butt scooting stupidity.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Burns View Post
    I never said it was rocket science, just that it is an actual thing that is actually real and is based on scientific principles and is one of the focuses of Aikijutsu arts.
    Aikijutsu is just another word for Japanese ju-jutsu. The aiki part really does not mean anything particularly significant. Aiki and kiai and ki are simply pre-science terms used to describe physical phenomena. No, you haven't been touting ki, aiki, or kiai in this thread.

    That may well be what you think already.

    Joint locks are joint locks, there is nothing special about how they were done in feudal Japan centuries ago.

    That is not to say that preserving historical arts is an unworthy endeavor, or that there is nothing to learn from them.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

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