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  1. #11

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    This is what happens in sport:



    Tappin' to leg locks is for pussies.
    c'est reveur.

  2. #12
    Michael Tzadok's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawarma View Post
    I've always liked history and came across this particular story in a coffee table book on Ancient Greek sports culture:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhichion

    Long story short, the pankrationist Arrhichion was caught in a choke by his opponent in a match, yet said opponent appears to have forgotten the BJJ 101 rule of Don't Cross Your Feet While Attempting RNCs. Arrhichion then broke his opponent's foot or toe, causing him to submit. Unfortunately, he then died shortly thereafter from the choke. While the mechanics involved are a bit sketchy (possibly a crushed trachea rather than blood choke), it is still a cool warstory of truly old-school submission wrestling.

    There's a number of funny stories regarding Ancient Greek sports, another good one relating the tale of how a horseman's horse was declared the Olympic champion for winning the race after bucking off the rider, but the story of Arrhichion has always been my favourite, however unlikely it is.
    The longer version on the wiki page you posted seems quite likely.
    Accordingly the antagonist of Arrichion, having already clinched him around the middle, thought to kill him; already he had wound his forearm about the otherís throat to shut off the breathing, while, pressing his legs on the groins and winding his feet one inside each knee of his adversary, he forestalled Arrichionís resistance by choking him till the sleep of death thus induced began to creep over his senses. But in relaxing the tension of his legs he failed to forestall the scheme of Arrichion; for the latter kicked back with the sole of his right foot (as the result of which his right side was imperiled since now his knee was hanging unsupported), then with his groin he holds his adversary tight till he can no longer resist, and, throwing his weight down toward the left while he locks the latterís foot tightly inside his own knee, by this violent outward thrust he wrenches the ankle from its socket.
    Guy has back with hooks in and a decent RNC. Arrichion doesn't submit because his trainer is urging him not to as Philostratus writes in Gymnasticus 21
    When Arrichion, the pankratiast, who had won already two Olympic games and after this fought in the third olympiad in the finals, already thought about submitting, his trainer Eryxias brought him to despise death by shouting from outside the ring: "What a wonderful funaral speech if one can say: he did not give up at Olympia."
    So Arrichion is getting choked to death, maybe starts some feeble defense, when his body goes into death spasm, causing him to flop down on his left and break his opponent's ankle. The judge/referee of the match doesn't realize that Arrichion is yet unconscious/dead(hey it even happens in modern MMA with our much superior medical knowledge and training). Guy with broken ankle lets go and submits, also not realizing he has actually already won. Lacking good medical knowledge, the Greeks assume that Arrichion's death spasms were actually him still fighting and that death claimed him after his opponent submitted and he is awarded the win.

    Never underestimate what a bad understanding of science can do to observation. We are talking about people who thought that fleas and lice spontaneously formed out of sand, maggots spontaneously formed from meat, and dinosaur fossils were impressions left over from when the gods emanated the creation and got their aim a bit wrong. I have no problem believing the generalities of the account while making allowance for some details being slightly off on account of poor understanding of the physical sciences.

  3. #13
    Kung-Fu Joe's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There are actually a few really good descriptions, from ancient Greek documents, about RNC's with uncannily modern details-- like having hooks sunk in and tap-out to signal forfeiture. Over in the Historical Discussion thread, in MABS, I posted these two descriptions, years ago.

    First comes from Lucian's Anacharsis, in the second century:

    Then, having fallen upon him, he does not allow the man to lift up his head, pressing the man’s head into the mud. And to finish him off now, having twined his legs around him along the man’s belly, having laid his forearm under the man’s throat, he strangles the poor guy, and the poor guy pats his strangler’s shoulder, begging, I suppose, that he not strangle him to death.

    The second is from Nonnos' Dionysiaca in the fifth century:


    And having thrown the man completely spread out in the dust
    Aiakos got on the middle of his opponent’s back
    And sending his outstretched feet along under the spread out stomach,
    Binding together a bent bond around just above the knees,
    He pressed sole on sole and encircled the ankles to their outermost tips;
    And having quickly stretched himself over his opponent’s back,
    And winding his hands over each other like a wreath,
    He cast a bond on the neck with his arm, having bent his fingers;
    He drenched the heaped up sand with soaking wet sweat,
    Cleaning off the running drops with dry sand,
    So that the entwined man might not slip through the knot of his hands
    While sending hot moisture down from his squeezed neck.
    And while he was being squeezed by the sharp palm
    The heralds chosen as overseers of the games wandered over,
    So that the forearm with the yoked-together lifting-strap would not kill him.
    For there was not at that time such a rule, which their
    descendants made later on, that when a man is overwhelmed
    by the strangled pain of necks being stretched by bonds
    he gives over the victory to his wrestling opponent with sensible silence,
    having tapped the winning man with a shameful hand.

  4. #14

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think that might be the most poetic description of dude-strangling I've ever read.

  5. #15

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Losco View Post
    Yes - surgery was needed with the "leg/ass issue" and unfortunately it resulted to opponents death
    Hancock would have approved.

  6. #16

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    @Kung-fu Joe
    Sorry, fat finger

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