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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by lant3rn View Post
    There is video footage of people after the attack happened bleached white and spazaming on the ground... even children and infants. But I have only seen the edited videos it is fucking horrific what Assad and his Russian allies are doing to the civilian population. I bet if more Americans saw this they wouldn't be so quick to call these refugees hidden terrorists.
    But, as explained in the article, the symptoms displayed by the victims do not match use of sarin.
    It's still a horrific incident, and arguably Assads fault, but it's not what the media reported

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMR View Post
    Apparently some people tought thay Trump was a sort of pacifist:

    http://reason.com/blog/2017/07/03/di...ry-clinton-the
    He never struck me as a pacifist, but he was unusually critical of US foreign policy and questioned the idea of the US acting as a global policeman, so I can see why people thought he'd be more isolationist.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandem View Post
    But, as explained in the article, the symptoms displayed by the victims do not match use of sarin.
    It's still a horrific incident, and arguably Assads fault, but it's not what the media reported
    Well the united nations investigation found that he had done such a thing in the past. The article does offer another narrative for this bombing in april but doesn't not clearly refute the use of sarin since the symptoms are actually the same as to those found in the other confirmed instances of sarin gas use.

    I would rate this as needs more evidence.

    Because a good prediction of future behaviour is past behaviour

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by lant3rn View Post
    the symptoms are actually the same as to those found in the other confirmed instances of sarin gas use.
    So where did the chlorine come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by lant3rn View Post
    Because a good prediction of future behaviour is past behaviour
    True, but Assad's ability to do the same thing again would be severely hampered by the fact that
    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour Hersh
    Everyone involved, except perhaps the president, also understood that a highly skilled United Nations team had spent more than a year in the aftermath of an alleged sarin attack in 2013 by Syria, removing what was said to be all chemical weapons from a dozen Syrian chemical weapons depots.
    I would rate the sarin narrative as "needs more evidence" personally.

  5. #15
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandem View Post
    But, as explained in the article, the symptoms displayed by the victims do not match use of sarin.
    It's still a horrific incident, and arguably Assads fault, but it's not what the media reported
    See, this is why I frustrate people. You do realize there is a new report out, which doesn't assess blame, that says there was Sarin gas or something similar used? Now, this goes back to what I alluded to about Russia, Syria and misinformation in my earlier post. It is why I said "meh." This is nothing new, it is just people freak out and complain when it is America. You have decided, as you continue to build your argument, to believe this article is true.

    It may be interesting to you, but it is the typical "here's a theory watch me run with it" article full of passive America bashing. Yes, I read the entire article and I am still at "meh." For example:
    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/0...035811755.html

    "Based on its work, the FFM (fact-finding mission) is able to conclude that a large number of people, some of whom died, were exposed to sarin or a sarin-like substance," said the report, parts of which were obtained by AFP news agency.
    Turkey says sarin gas used in Idlib chemical attack

    "The release that caused this exposure was most likely initiated at the site where there is now a crater in the road," it added.

    "It is the conclusion of the FFM that such a release can only be determined as the use of sarin, as a chemical weapon."
    Now, this doesn't prove anything about the machinations behind the attack. It also doesn't prove if the bomb carried the Chemical agents or if they were in a bunker like Assad and the Russians claim.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    See, this is why I frustrate people. You do realize there is a new report out, which doesn't assess blame, that says there was Sarin gas or something similar used? Now, this goes back to what I alluded to about Russia, Syria and misinformation in my earlier post. It is why I said "meh." This is nothing new, it is just people freak out and complain when it is America. You have decided, as you continue to build your argument, to believe this article is true.

    It may be interesting to you, but it is the typical "here's a theory watch me run with it" article full of passive America bashing. Yes, I read the entire article and I am still at "meh." For example:
    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/0...035811755.html



    Now, this doesn't prove anything about the machinations behind the attack. It also doesn't prove if the bomb carried the Chemical agents or if they were in a bunker like Assad and the Russians claim.
    "Satin or something similar" doesn't necessarily exclude the secondary explosion theory, like you said, so we still have a situation where there's no smoking gun. I'm leaning towards Hersh's theory but I started off skeptical of it, and I'm arguing it largely for the sake of debate.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandem View Post
    "Satin or something similar" doesn't necessarily exclude the secondary explosion theory, like you said, so we still have a situation where there's no smoking gun. I'm leaning towards Hersh's theory but I started off skeptical of it, and I'm arguing it largely for the sake of debate.
    When you debate a theory the first thing you do is punch holes in it or make confirmations. Here's the problem, I already know what to expect from the entire WMDs concerning Desert Storm and all of the garbage entailed in that fiasco. So far, the article does more to make America's intelligence look stupid than anything confirming or denying Sarin use backed by the government or not.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    When you debate a theory the first thing you do is punch holes in it or make confirmations. Here's the problem, I already know what to expect from the entire WMDs concerning Desert Storm and all of the garbage entailed in that fiasco. So far, the article does more to make America's intelligence look stupid than anything confirming or denying Sarin use backed by the government or not.
    No author, no information on where it came from.
    Just the below quote at the bottom.
    Quote Originally Posted by article
    Source: Al Jazeera and news agencies
    One link in the article (all the sourced links go back to an Al Jazeera page or article, actually) send you to this page ... the Russia News page...
    http://www.aljazeera.com/topics/country/russia.html
    UNITED STATES
    Trump's Euro-trip: Five big issues to watch
    What happens when you mix Trump, Putin, Merkel, Xi, and zombie protesters with trade, defence and climate change?
    which at the time gave me that quote and this screenshot


    So you know ...
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Slamming the man in the bottom position from time to time keeps everybody on their toes and discourages butt scooting stupidity.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    When you debate a theory the first thing you do is punch holes in it or make confirmations. Here's the problem, I already know what to expect from the entire WMDs concerning Desert Storm and all of the garbage entailed in that fiasco. So far, the article does more to make America's intelligence look stupid than anything confirming or denying Sarin use backed by the government or not.
    I agree about the holes, the main reason I'm defending the article is that ideally you should have someone trying to plug the holes too. I don't think the article conclusively proves there was no Sarin attack, but the issues it raises do cast serious doubts, so I'm inclined to take the innocent until proven guilty stance

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