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  1. #11
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Walda View Post
    I thought it was rare actually. Before starting BJJ I read a little on the internet about it, some articles and stuff. I fount a small group to train with, this group is affiliated with a bigger gym. In my group nobody mentioned it before - but the head coach of the actual gym posted about promotions a couple of days ago. An he mentioned the whipping and some guys talked about being sore from it.
    I don't get why they do it in the first place. And honestly, I have no problem with pain - when it is related to fighting. i do Muaythai too and I come home with bruises sometimes. happens. Don't have a problem with fighting men either.
    But just letting them hit me for no reason? I Don't get it.

    PS And thank you for your answers. Sorry again for the bad english.
    Look up Rites of Passage Rituals to get a better understanding of the psychology behind them. It is literally ancient human frat boy behavior.
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    “I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Slamming the man in the bottom position from time to time keeps everybody on their toes and discourages butt scooting stupidity.

  2. #12

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Walda View Post
    Hey
    I'm new here, and because I don't know who to talk to - I try talking to you about this.

    Thing ist, I'm in love with BJJ. Started it 6 months ago - and it is the one thing that makes my head quiet. It bringt me a lot of fun, peace and is already really important to me.

    Well, thing is, I just realised the group I train with dies the belt whipping thing at promotions.

    So, I'm a girl. I lieved in an abussive realtionship for years and the guy bet the **** out of me with his belt. He also raped me at the end of the realtionship. I tell you this, because it happened. It's just a part of my life now.

    So, you might understand why the belt whipping thing is just something I will never do. Why? Well, the gym is the one place wehere I feel safe, happy and it is a place that is free of bad memorys. my head is peaceful an quiet there. And I know that the belt whipping thing will remind me of what happened to me and I don't want to carry that into the gym.

    Heres the other thing. I did Krav Maga before. And one day something came up and I had to tell people about my past. And things never were the same again. They never looked at me the same again, they were more gentle with me and I started to feel like the poor girl that people have to handle with so much care. o I left the gym. I don't want people to treat me funny because of hat happened to me. So i kind of don't want to tell them why the belt whipping is something I don't ant to do.

    So, will you please explain to me why you did it? How you feel about it?
    Because I'm a little lost here. I love BJJ. I suck at it - and the blue belt is far away right now - but I don't want to stop doing it because I enjoy it so much. So maybe if there is someone outthere who wants to talk to me about it - please do.

    And sorry about my english, it is not my mothertongue.

    Have a nice evenning!
    I'm so sorry to hear about all that....no one should go through waht you did, and you have my deepest condolences

    If i got news that my girlfriend had to go through that and someone was doing that to her....I'd have brought hell to that place, no doubt. yea, i'd go with wat others have said and go somewhere else to train. the place where my girl trains is a 40 minute drive, but i dont mind driving her there

  3. #13

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    Look up Rites of Passage Rituals to get a better understanding of the psychology behind them. It is literally ancient human frat boy behavior.
    This used to be a often discussed thing on Bullshido.net in ancient times...

    Don't ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever do something you aren't comfortable doing in any martial arts school.

    If it doesn't feel right on that level, opt-out. If they don't want/let you to opt-out...beware.

    The first protobullshidoka were cults of people perfectly comfortable with allowing instructors to perform heinous acts of depravity upon them and their kids.

  4. #14
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Walda View Post
    Hey
    I'm new here, and because I don't know who to talk to - I try talking to you about this.

    Thing ist, I'm in love with BJJ. Started it 6 months ago - and it is the one thing that makes my head quiet. It bringt me a lot of fun, peace and is already really important to me.

    Well, thing is, I just realised the group I train with dies the belt whipping thing at promotions.

    So, I'm a girl. I lieved in an abussive realtionship for years and the guy bet the **** out of me with his belt. He also raped me at the end of the realtionship. I tell you this, because it happened. It's just a part of my life now.

    So, you might understand why the belt whipping thing is just something I will never do. Why? Well, the gym is the one place wehere I feel safe, happy and it is a place that is free of bad memorys. my head is peaceful an quiet there. And I know that the belt whipping thing will remind me of what happened to me and I don't want to carry that into the gym.

    Heres the other thing. I did Krav Maga before. And one day something came up and I had to tell people about my past. And things never were the same again. They never looked at me the same again, they were more gentle with me and I started to feel like the poor girl that people have to handle with so much care. o I left the gym. I don't want people to treat me funny because of hat happened to me. So i kind of don't want to tell them why the belt whipping is something I don't ant to do.

    So, will you please explain to me why you did it? How you feel about it?
    Because I'm a little lost here. I love BJJ. I suck at it - and the blue belt is far away right now - but I don't want to stop doing it because I enjoy it so much. So maybe if there is someone outthere who wants to talk to me about it - please do.

    And sorry about my english, it is not my mothertongue.

    Have a nice evenning!
    As usual it's best you start all conversations with Bjj school owners the same way as you do policemen.
    Inform them that you pay their salary and you won't be doing any thing you don't wanna do.

    At out school we just do hard rolling and training for like 2 hours as part of the promotion "ritual". From white - blue you also have to demonstrate the self defense.
    I got belt whipped for my purple and brown but most students don't get that because of the obvious issues that can arise from that practice. Some of my students wanted to whip me when I got my black but my teacher said ,"We don't whip blackbelts."

  5. #15
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Like most things, it really depends on the people.
    Hazing things normally start off more or less innocent and mild, but with each generation get worse.
    Their are people I have trained with that I would trust to run the gauntlet with - virtually none of them are white belts.
    It takes a certain maturity to haze people without it being a bad thing, unfortunately the very act of hazing is typically an immature thing.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

  6. #16

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Like most things, it really depends on the people.
    Hazing things normally start off more or less innocent and mild, but with each generation get worse.
    Their are people I have trained with that I would trust to run the gauntlet with - virtually none of them are white belts.
    It takes a certain maturity to haze people without it being a bad thing, unfortunately the very act of hazing is typically an immature thing.
    The gauntlet is a glove. It's meant to be worn. It's something you choose, not thrust upon you by another.

  7. #17
    Holy Moment's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In my school, we just do a jump in.

    My school, of course, is the Street.
    Dan Severn loves raping people.

  8. #18

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    As usual it's best you start all conversations with Bjj school owners the same way as you do policemen.
    Inform them that you pay their salary and you won't be doing any thing you don't wanna do.
    BJJ instructors are not Policemen, though.
    They are Gym teachers and sports coaches.
    Any sports coach can say if you don't do this, you are off the team.
    If they are talking about practice attendance, giving maximum hustle during practice, and getting good grades, that is healthy.
    If they, in their coach's role, are talking about submitting to any kind of hazing ritual, particularly one that could be said to be modeled off a gang initiation ritual or have S&M connotations, then they do not yet have the maturity or professionalism to be in a coach's role.
    The older we get, the natural and virtuous evolution is to allow less and less grab ass and horseplay while we are personally on the floor, especially in environments where injuries are an expected occasional outcome when even optimal procdures are followed.
    Finally, why would it be virtuous for a black belt to allow their lower belts to be whipped by anybody without those lower belts fighting back?
    Might it not be better to teach one's students not to submit to an ass whipping without bringing back their own best form of hell on anyone, whether from instructor or peers or an adversary, who tries to subject them to an ass whipping or bullying of any kind?
    I'm here to teach people how to fight back, not meekly let other people hit them because of social factors of any kind.
    Last edited by WFMurphyPhD; 6/22/2017 8:30am at .

  9. #19
    1point2's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Walda, I've participated in a few belt whipping ceremonies and I think they're stupid.

    I think you should ask to speak privately with your instructor. In that private meeting, tell the instructor (as ermaghoti suggested above) that your past experiences would cause such a ritual to be emotionally traumatic. Tell the instructor that you would like this information to remain private. You don't need to go into detail about your past. Just keep repeating those three things: past experience makes belt whipping not work for you, you'd like that to be private information, and you don't want to talk about it.

    Best of luck.

    As a side note, it's a shame that so many instructors don't realize that this kind of scenario is going to be common. They pat themselves on the back for teaching self-defense, but that means that people with a traumatic past are going to sign up. We shouldn't construct artificial bullshit for them when they do.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates

  10. #20
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is exactly where I land on this:

    I wouldn't train at a place where I can't/don't trust my training partners not to hurt me.
    Be that via a right of passage, via drilling, via rolling, via any thing.
    I simply wouldn't train any place where the thought of getting belt whipped made me afraid even if that school didn't belt whip.
    That being said not having the belt whipping thing seems to be a good indication of the maturity of an instructor.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

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