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  1. #11
    BKR's Avatar
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    One thing to consider is you may think you know why the cop pulled you over, but you may be wrong.

    Onc scenario is that your vehicle (and/or you) look like a suspect person/vehicle involved in a crime. That crime may have been a felony, or somebody with a felony warrant, maybe even with a officer safety warning involved.

    So the cop(s) may be more keyed up than usual. Of course, if several cars pull up and they start yelling for you to show your hand, etc., that's a good clue.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    You need to check your individual state statutes. Below is presented as guidance for further research.
    https://www.usacarry.com/duty-to-inform-laws/
    Most of the states seem to follow the "If Asked" policy, which is fine by me. The ones that don't (e.g. MI) should be ones where the cops are trained to deal properly with people who say "I am armed".

    Also worth noting that in Minnesota (Castille's state) he had the right to not tell the officer he had anything. And the officer should have figured out pretty quick Castille was NOT his suspect.

    Honestly, **** "Duty to Inform" if I think the cop pulling me over is trigger happy or nervous...I'll inform them only once I feel it's safe to do so. Sometimes you have to choose personal safety in the moment over "the rules".

    I'd rather them figure out on their own I'm carrying, and deal with the consequences ("oops!"), than play Russian Roulette with some tired, scared patrol officer.

    There are cases where people have "informed" according to the law, only to have the cop go apeshit anyway. In this case, Castille who was clearly NOT A CRIMINAL volunteered the information...and was shot dead.

    So much for THEIR "duty".
    Last edited by Pship Destroyer; 6/20/2017 7:00pm at .

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    1981 Toyota 4WD Truck in the driveway...still runs and is street legal.

    I'd be more likely to roll the window down during daylight hours...
    Even my old stuff I had the window down ,license ready and hands back at 11 and 1 by the time they got there.

    For my daily driver(ford flex) now I have dark tint on everything bUT the drivers window, hence the all windows down policy.

  4. #14
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
    After this incident, I'm just of the opinion the safest time to inform a cop that I have a weapon is when they ask, AFTER I've handed them my license/permit, and AFTER the cop appears to be in control of the situation.

    99/100 times you're gonna get pulled over, the cop will do their thing, and let you go nary the wiser that you were packing a hand cannon.

    Cops are trained to go to work the moment they know somebody is armed....but unless they decide you're worthy of a search, your rights are pretty standard (per USSC): You don't need to cooperate with ANY search. In fact other than obeying commands, you don't even have to speak to an officer pulling you over.

    That's the part of this incident we didn't see on video...how exactly that played out. I think the jury gave the officer the benefit of the doubt that however it occurred, it was sudden and jarring and caused him to panic.
    If you were to ask an officer about when they "go to work", it would be when their shift starts...

    The cops I know assume that anybody they approach is armed, period. Especially in traffic stops.

    On telling the cop armed or not, you have to check your state laws.

    If you tell them you are armed, they may or may not want to see the weapon and do a NCIC check on it. That may be a gray area depending on why the stop was initiated.

    It's a fine line at times between asserting your rights and resist/obstruct/false info to LEO charges...
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    If you tell them you are armed, they may or may not want to see the weapon and do a NCIC check on it. That may be a gray area depending on why the stop was initiated.
    Well according to this case study, if I tell them I'm armed per my duty to inform, they might shoot me no matter what I do next. Castille was allegedly reaching for his WALLET, not his gun, according to the reports. His gun never left his pocket. I don't know if "proper protocol" matters in the case of a fidgety cop. I'd still much rather run afoul of a "Duty to Inform" statute than end up dead.

    Castille had his girlfriend and a baby in the back seat, and this cop shot into the vehicle anyway, another sign that this was a case of an officer not thinking clearly or with anyone's safety in mind but his own self-preservation. If he'd hit the baby or the passenger, would the decision have been different? What the **** was he thinking...he wasn't rational, by any measure.

    Watching the video only confirms this, because he was totally not in control of the situation.

    I won't get too far into the race issues in this case, but I do believe "driving while black" is a thing as much as I believe "armed while black" is an even more dangerous thing. Driving while black AND armed..the law doesn't have a great track record. I wish it wasn't the case, but you don't see a lot of cases like this where the driver/gun owner is white.

    I think the jury ultimately sympathized with him because he was a scared cop, but I don't see how that's justice for Castille or his family. It's just more of the same and it erodes trust in the police.
    Last edited by Pship Destroyer; 6/20/2017 7:15pm at .

  6. #16

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The police cruiser dash cam was released today.

    All I can say from this angle is what the ****..

    As Castile hands Yanez his insurance card, he says, “Sir, I have to tell you that I do have a firearm on me."

    Yanez: “OK, don’t reach for it then.”

    Castile: “I’m… I’m… [inaudible] reaching.”

    Yanez: “Don’t pull it out.”

    Castile: “I’m not pulling it out.”

    Passenger: “He’s not pulling it out.”

    Yanez: “Don't pull it out!”

    [Seven shots fired]
    Last edited by Pship Destroyer; 6/21/2017 12:01am at .

  7. #17
    Cassius's Avatar
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    Anytime law enforcement and the general populace interact in an uncontrolled environment, there is a danger to both. While LEOs are typically decent people trying to do a hard job, there are certainly bad eggs as well as officers who just have the wrong temperament/personality/whatever for the job. I'm not interested in getting into the issue of tracking which ones aren't good at their jobs, or debating how to "rehome" them to a career they are better suited to, though that discussion certainly has merit outside of this topic.

    My thoughts are that we need to consider what can be done to minimize danger to ourselves and LEOs in uncontrolled situations without undue violations to our constitutional rights. The fact that many of us put a lot of thought into what we can do to make LEOs feel more in control is a good first step. I would like to see an organization like the NRA put time and effort into training both sides on an agreed upon "SOP" that protects the rights of everyone and facilitates safe interaction in such situations. It would need to be carefully monitored and constantly scrutinized, but it seems to me that it could do a lot of good. Right now we just have our own thought processes on the situation, and while many of our ideas are valid, they aren't necessarily in line with what LEOs may expect, since it appears both sides are just taking shots in the dark at this point. Unfortunately, sometimes literally.

    The other thought that occurs to me is that local, state, and federal governments need to start carefully considering the true cost of many of the revenue generating activities they seem to think are a matter of course nowadays. Routine traffic stops being one of them.

    Just my general thoughts. I have not followed this particular case too closely.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal

  8. #18
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
    Well according to this case study, if I tell them I'm armed per my duty to inform, they might shoot me no matter what I do next. Castille was allegedly reaching for his WALLET, not his gun, according to the reports. His gun never left his pocket. I don't know if "proper protocol" matters in the case of a fidgety cop. I'd still much rather run afoul of a "Duty to Inform" statute than end up dead.

    Castille had his girlfriend and a baby in the back seat, and this cop shot into the vehicle anyway, another sign that this was a case of an officer not thinking clearly or with anyone's safety in mind but his own self-preservation. If he'd hit the baby or the passenger, would the decision have been different? What the **** was he thinking...he wasn't rational, by any measure.

    Watching the video only confirms this, because he was totally not in control of the situation.

    I won't get too far into the race issues in this case, but I do believe "driving while black" is a thing as much as I believe "armed while black" is an even more dangerous thing. Driving while black AND armed..the law doesn't have a great track record. I wish it wasn't the case, but you don't see a lot of cases like this where the driver/gun owner is white.

    I think the jury ultimately sympathized with him because he was a scared cop, but I don't see how that's justice for Castille or his family. It's just more of the same and it erodes trust in the police.
    Like I wrote, I sit there with my hands on the steering wheel and wait for instructions. If I get shot like that, I guess it was just not my day.

    Like I wrote, when the officer asks for registration and license, if she does, I state where those items are located, and ask if it's OK to say, get into the center console, or take my wallet out of my right hip pocket/console, etc.

    I'm not taking sides in this particular case.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  9. #19
    BKR's Avatar
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    Arizona Updates Drivers Manual

    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Like I wrote, I sit there with my hands on the steering wheel and wait for instructions. If I get shot like that, I guess it was just not my day.

    Like I wrote, when the officer asks for registration and license, if she does, I state where those items are located, and ask if it's OK to say, get into the center console, or take my wallet out of my right hip pocket/console, etc.

    I'm not taking sides in this particular case.
    Well, imagine that...
    https://www.policeone.com/patrol-iss...-police-stops/

    Ariz. tells armed drivers how to avoid deadly police stops
    The new edition of the driver's manual advises drivers to keep their hands on the steering wheel during a stop and tell cops right away that there's a firearm in the car.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  10. #20
    Bneterasedmynam's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Well, imagine that...
    https://www.policeone.com/patrol-iss...-police-stops/

    Ariz. tells armed drivers how to avoid deadly police stops
    The new edition of the driver's manual advises drivers to keep their hands on the steering wheel during a stop and tell cops right away that there's a firearm in the car.
    That's great and all and I'm not trying to be mean about it, but cops have been known to shoot black guys while they were laying on the ground with their hands above their head so do you really think an updated drivers manual is going to lower the number of shootings??

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