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  1. #11
    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten. supporting member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawarma View Post
    ^^^^A highly fair point. Although it rather assumes that Trump has read the agreement as well, which is honestly far from guaranteed.
    Nothing is guaranteed. We just don't know. We don't know if Obama read it either.

    There are a lot of climate militants on both sides. I had some science professors in college who believed some really ridiculous ****. For instance, I had one who thought it was reasonable to expect people to voluntarily pay twice as much money for an electric car. It's just not practical or realistic.

  2. #12
    Bneterasedmynam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Nothing is guaranteed. We just don't know. We don't know if Obama read it either.

    There are a lot of climate militants on both sides. I had some science professors in college who believed some really ridiculous ****. For instance, I had one who thought it was reasonable to expect people to voluntarily pay twice as much money for an electric car. It's just not practical or realistic.
    Twice as much is a conservative estimate. $60,000 for a car that has a range of 220 miles.

  3. #13
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    The Tesla 3 is priced as a mid range sedan.

    https://www.tesla.com/model3
    $35,000
    Starting price before incentives
    Production begins mid 2017
    Delivery estimate for new reservations is mid 2018 or later
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Slamming the man in the bottom position from time to time keeps everybody on their toes and discourages butt scooting stupidity.

  4. #14

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    Trump killed off (federal support for) something Obama (and 190+ countries) put together, that hadn't really even started yet and will take years to halt, leaving the problem with his successor.

    Classic Trump: trusts his own gut instincts more than scientific research, he thinks this is a "negotiable" deal, and he thinks Paris is to blame.

    Not surprisingly...the states are going around Trump.

    The United States Climate Alliance comprises a group of states in the United States committed to upholding the 2015 Paris Agreement on climate change within their borders. It was formed on June 1, 2017, by three state governors—Jay Inslee of Washington, Andrew Cuomo of New York, and Jerry Brown of California—after U.S. President Donald Trump announced United States withdrawal from the Paris Agreement
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...imate_Alliance


    California June 1, 2017 (founding member)
    New York June 1, 2017 (founding member)
    Washington June 1, 2017 (founding member)

    Potential members

    By the end of June 1, 2017, seven other U.S. state governors had agreed to maintain their states' support for the Paris Agreement.[6]

    Colorado
    Connecticut
    Hawaii
    Massachusetts
    Oregon
    Rhode Island
    Virginia


    These seven states combined with the United States Climate Alliance make up 30.1% of the US population,[8] 35.3% of US GDP,[9] and 17.8% of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions.

    Maryland Governor Larry Hogan (R) also expressed support for the Paris Agreement on June 1, 2017, but has yet to make an official statement supporting Maryland's admission into the alliance.
    Cities

    More than one hundred mayors of US cities have also indicated support for the objectives of the Alliance as of June 2, 2017.[11] Among these cities are the capital, Washington, D.C., and the 10 most populous cities in the nation: New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Phoenix, Philadelphia, San Antonio, San Diego, Dallas, and San Jose. One hundred and five of these cities comprise the Mayors National Climate Action Agenda, an organization of U.S. mayors that has also committed to continuing to uphold the Paris agreement's commitments; however, many non-member cities such as Nashville[12] and San Diego[13] have also pledged to honor the Paris Agreement.[14]
    Last edited by Pship Destroyer; 6/02/2017 10:52am at .

  5. #15

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    Dude, Trump doesn't believe that global climate change isn't real any more than any other politician claiming to do so. The entire point of this exercise is twofold:

    1. Pander to the poor schmucks who voted for him saying he would "bring back coal jobs", like a blacksmith in 1915 hoping for the revival of his horseshoe manufacturing business.

    2. By threatening to walk away, he wants the other signees to go "oh no, please don't walk away, here are some way better terms than what we offered before!" It is a negotiation tactic that Trump loves. He doesn't actually care what the agreement is about, he just wants to be able to say "I negotiated a way more awesome deal than Obama!"

    Which is why it sucks **** for him that the other signees only response so far has been "ktxhbai."

  6. #16
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawarma View Post
    Why exactly? Not that I suggest that I am an expert on climate science, but it should be fairly obvious that focusing on oil & coal is yesterdays technology and that the only possible future is in alternative energy sources. China, a country with far fewer resources than America, is now likely to attempt to take the lead in developing such technologies.

    Even assuming that manmade climate change is a hoax (it isn't), how is this anything but shortsighted pandering to midwestern coalminers and big oil bosses?
    The Coal Industry leaders in both controllers of production and the work force both said coal jobs are not going to be there. This is mainly oil transport and oil refineries companies' influences. Coal is a distraction from the main goal in my opinion. Refineries were extremely restricted here in the states because of the environmental risk and the unavoidable contaminations.
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Slamming the man in the bottom position from time to time keeps everybody on their toes and discourages butt scooting stupidity.

  7. #17
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawarma View Post
    Why exactly? Not that I suggest that I am an expert on climate science, but it should be fairly obvious that focusing on oil & coal is yesterdays technology and that the only possible future is in alternative energy sources. China, a country with far fewer resources than America, is now likely to attempt to take the lead in developing such technologies.

    Even assuming that manmade climate change is a hoax (it isn't), how is this anything but shortsighted pandering to midwestern coalminers and big oil bosses?
    China has plenty of resources, not sure what you are referring to?

    Coal Reserves: (Proven reserves)
    http://www.mining-technology.com/fea...es-by-country/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal#World_coal_reserves

    Oil: (Proven Reserves) Note: Canada is primarily the Alberta Tar Sands, so called "dirty" oil
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...n_oil_reserves

    Timber:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...by_forest_area

    Iron:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ore_production

    Rare Earth Minerals (super-important for making semi-conductors): Hint: It's China...
    http://investingnews.com/daily/resou...erves-country/

    Aluminum: (Bauxite is the primary Aluminum ore, and only forms under specific conditions, hence the huge amount in
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...xite-reserves/
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

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  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    China has plenty of resources, not sure what you are referring to?

    Coal Reserves: (Proven reserves)
    http://www.mining-technology.com/fea...es-by-country/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal#World_coal_reserves

    Oil: (Proven Reserves) Note: Canada is primarily the Alberta Tar Sands, so called "dirty" oil
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...n_oil_reserves

    Timber:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...by_forest_area

    Iron:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ore_production

    Rare Earth Minerals (super-important for making semi-conductors): Hint: It's China...
    http://investingnews.com/daily/resou...erves-country/

    Aluminum: (Bauxite is the primary Aluminum ore, and only forms under specific conditions, hence the huge amount in
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...xite-reserves/
    China is less affluent than the US, which was my point.

  9. #19
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    The Tesla 3 is priced as a mid range sedan.

    https://www.tesla.com/model3
    Mid-priced non-existent availability.

    We have to get the power to run the damned things from somewhere, and power to run the plant that makes them, and to make the tires you have to replace, etc.

    Unless their manufacturing is totally carbon-neutral, there is a payout period involved.

    Don't get me wrong, nothing against electric cars on my part, it's just that many people (maybe not you) don't consider those sorts of things when touting electric cars.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  10. #20
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawarma View Post
    China is less affluent than the US, which was my point.
    They have a state-run economy, so can direct "resources" as they wish, including into renewable energy sources and distribution systems.

    China is number one in renewable energy production, followed by the USA (about 1/2 as much).

    Personally, I've nothing against renewable energy sources as long as they can compete relatively fairly with other sources of energy. I'm not much for state-run economies, though...
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

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