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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    But, but, judo or other combat sports aren't supporting a CAUSE man ! That just isn't the same...
    You could argue Kano had a cause. I think he recognized anger and militancy as something that could be redirected in positive ways.

    Redirecting some of this political angst into something physically or mentally positive and productive seems exactly what the US needs right now.

    Then the truly dangerous people like Christian will stand out. I think in all the post 9/11 and Trump "MUSLIMS GET OUT" rhetoric, there was a fucking lunatic running around with a bat and nobody intervened.

    BJJ in schools? Somebody do something..figure it out already before one of these rallies does turn deadly. Then it won't matter who started it, it'll just blossom.
    Last edited by Pship Destroyer; 6/05/2017 5:07pm at .

  2. #42
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    whatever. The real stupid was the fucking alt-right march the day of the vigil. It was either intentionally inflammatory, or those fuckers are just really socially inept.
    Both, They are not the cool kids.

  3. #43
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
    Oh the left wing anarchists and guerillas scare me even more, but for the most part those groups were marginalized a long time ago. But when was the last big, violent Left rally in America?

    We mostly agree although I have to draw the line at the mayor. He's doing the best he can, he's got no good options, really.

    The mayor of Portland is not a radical or violent nor does he have any stake in squelching speech...he DOES have a stake in limiting or stopping violence, so...like all leaders, he has a tough call to make.

    Reagan would have had the pressure hoses out on the hippies. That's a lot worse than what the mayor did.
    Well, nazis have been marginalized as well for a long time. As have white supremacists, most of whom you will find as felons in prison, or felons on probation/parole, or having served their time and out in public again.

    The Mayor was willing to have free speech rights at a legally sanctioned rally on public property denied. Didn't he publicly state that "hate speech" is not protected by the 1st Amendment ? Yes, denied, as IMO, delay = deny in this case. As previously stated, I suspect he knew he could not stop the rally, so he tried to at least look good to his base.

    Why, yes, he did... https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.09e704ae85c1

    Either that or he is just ignorant/stupid about the 1st amendment. But he's not the only one who claims "hate" speech is not protected speech...

    Yeah, he was in a tough spot, and he appears to have tried to take the weak way out, and justified that partly by "hate speech not protected". Not very admirable in my book.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  4. #44
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
    You could argue Kano had a cause. I think he recognized anger and militancy as something that could be redirected in positive ways.

    Redirecting some of this political angst into something physically or mentally positive and productive seems exactly what the US needs right now.

    Then the truly dangerous people like Christian will stand out. I think in all the post 9/11 and Trump "MUSLIMS GET OUT" rhetoric, there was a fucking lunatic running around with a bat and nobody intervened.

    BJJ in schools? Somebody do something..figure it out already before one of these rallies does turn deadly. Then it won't matter who started it, it'll just blossom.
    Well...not going to argue Kano or what he thought/believed in this thread.

    If I read you correctly, you think that more people doing combat sports would make mental guys like Christian stand out? I won't go an further until you clarify.

    Until BJJ instructors are well paid to teach in public schools, I don't think we will be seeing that widespread very soon in 'Murica.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    If I read you correctly, you think that more people doing combat sports would make mental guys like Christian stand out? I won't go an further until you clarify.
    Not necessarily combat sports, although I think the morons DO stand out in combat sports, and largely because the majority of people who do them are not nearly as extreme.

    For example, an overly violent person in judo class gets tossed (in more ways than one) fast. Most judo classes will simply not tolerate such behavior.

    When everyone turns to doing productive, positive things (mentally or physically), the non-productive, negative, and potentially destructive elements should stand out.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Well, nazis have been marginalized as well for a long time. As have white supremacists, most of whom you will find as felons in prison, or felons on probation/parole, or having served their time and out in public again.
    They've gained a huge online following, which allows them to surpass even imprisonment. Not all of it is overtly obvious...in fact they love to hide it behind everyday Americana (ie. frogs).

    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    The Mayor was willing to have free speech rights at a legally sanctioned rally on public property denied. Didn't he publicly state that "hate speech" is not protected by the 1st Amendment ? Yes, denied, as IMO, delay = deny in this case. As previously stated, I suspect he knew he could not stop the rally, so he tried to at least look good to his base.

    Why, yes, he did... https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.09e704ae85c1

    Either that or he is just ignorant/stupid about the 1st amendment. But he's not the only one who claims "hate" speech is not protected speech...
    Hate speech in the way he used it is not protected. He's equating hate speech with rally violence, which is the dividing line between speech and criminial activity (and it really doesn't matter who does it, Alt Right or Antifa, hate speech really means showing up, screaming hateful ****, and attacking other people, which is what happened at the last rallies). I doubt he's ignorant of the 1st amendment, and the courts have ruled hate speech is not "protected" as in there are no consequences in every case.

    It was not public state-owned Oregon land, it was federal land, so he tried to use a federal technicality to stop the rally.

    Vis a vis, saying you hate Muslims is protected in America in almost every form. BUT walking into a rally or train or mosque saying hateful **** about Muslims and killing people gets classified as a hate crime. Walking in with a baseball bat and beating on people is not "protected speech".

    But, you'll find a lot of the organizers on both sides suggesting violent action is protected expression. That, I think we can both agree, is bollocks.

    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Yeah, he was in a tough spot, and he appears to have tried to take the weak way out.
    Like every politician ever. LOL. I don't defend him per se, but I don't think he's a big part of some "free speech" problem facing America.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    So, Portland did not go up in a sea of flames after all. The cops were there and prepared. Good job for sure on their part. Good job by the ACLU telling the Portland Mayor to pound sand.

    The Real Antifa(tm) showed up too. Throwing stuff at the popo, imagine that...

    I wonder if they will portray themselves as the victims as they did in the Portland may day activities?

    'Murica!

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/04/us/por...sts/index.html

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.5b230f96a8b0
    Antifa was mostly busy selling an ice cream cart, and at least some of the Antifa that got arrested turned out to be right-wing nut jobs trying to incite ****. All things considered, I'm pretty happy with the outcome

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    Both, They are not the cool kids.
    Literally none of the people involved in this **** are. It's just two different brands of neck/legbeards fighting for supremacy in the previously unknown territory some of them call "outside."

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Antifa was mostly busy selling an ice cream cart, and at least some of the Antifa that got arrested turned out to be right-wing nut jobs trying to incite ****. All things considered, I'm pretty happy with the outcome
    Geeeeeeeee. Why would anyone actually work against their own interests just to give "the other side" visuals and sound bites in a fucking media war? Antifa aren't Anarcho-Punk-Rockers or libertarians or the Right trying to tear down a system. They are anti-fascists.

    Anyone acting like an Anarchist is a fucking anarchist no matter what color hat they happen to be wearing or banner they are flying. I don't think most of you realize exactly how organize certain Right Wing groups actually are and how they actively try to incite the opposition and control the conversations and how negative it really is to democracy.
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Slamming the man in the bottom position from time to time keeps everybody on their toes and discourages butt scooting stupidity.

  10. #50

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    ????Fascist anti-Fascist Fascists pretending to be Fascists fighting Anti-Fascists????

    I'm poor at math, somebody tell me how this resolves logically..

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