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  1. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    One Ambulance, Eleven Cops...

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2004 11:46am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can't find where Shaolin Do, as a system, came from! If it came out of the Fukien province temple by someone trained there just before the communist takeover, then I would expect to see at least one of the basic forms that were routinely taught there.

    I see none. Not only that, I do not see similar or like movement of basic techniques.
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  2. Miguksaram is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2004 11:47am

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     Style: Shorei-ryu & Kumdo & TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by VoidComeAgain
    Sorry most of that is gonna take more study on my part to be able to answer. As for the gi's the standard kungfu uniform is stereo typical to every kungfu movie we have ever seen. Most kungfu system from back then tend to wear robes that resemble gi's. And just for practicalities sake most kung fu outfits today arent really durable usually being made of silk or a light cotton blend. I mean who really wants to sweat and train in their best pajamas? Also what makes a style? Is it the name or what they wear? Or is it really the art they teach?
    Actually the traditional kwoon would have a t-shirt and some pants that they would wear to train in. The only people who would wear robes are monks. As for the uniform, it really is the choice of the instructor, but I am just wondering why they would teach a chinese art in japanese clothing. Again this ties into my earlier question about the name as well as the resaoning behind not changing the name back as well as the lineage of the system.

    Are you a student of the system or just an outsider looking in? Just curious.
    Jeremy M. Talbott

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
    Quote Originally Posted by D.Murray
    "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
    Quote Originally Posted by hangooknamja88 View Post
    My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


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  3. Miguksaram is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2004 11:55am

    supporting member
     Style: Shorei-ryu & Kumdo & TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Mr_Mantis
    I can't find where Shaolin Do, as a system, came from! If it came out of the Fukien province temple by someone trained there just before the communist takeover, then I would expect to see at least one of the basic forms that were routinely taught there.

    I see none. Not only that, I do not see similar or like movement of basic techniques.
    I agree. This is why I am questioning the lineage. If it is an electic art of this and that, then just say so.
    Jeremy M. Talbott

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
    Quote Originally Posted by D.Murray
    "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
    Quote Originally Posted by hangooknamja88 View Post
    My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


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  4. VoidComeAgain is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2004 11:58am

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     Style: Death. Thats how it ends

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by miguksaram
    Actually the traditional kwoon would have a t-shirt and some pants that they would wear to train in. The only people who would wear robes are monks. As for the uniform, it really is the choice of the instructor, but I am just wondering why they would teach a chinese art in japanese clothing. Again this ties into my earlier question about the name as well as the resaoning behind not changing the name back as well as the lineage of the system.

    Are you a student of the system or just an outsider looking in? Just curious.

    Outsider looking in for now. Been studying up on them. You would be surprised at what you can find using google.
    I must not fear.
    Fear is the mind-killer.
    Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
    I will face my fear.
    I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
    And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
    Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
    Only I will remain.
  5. Miguksaram is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2004 12:16pm

    supporting member
     Style: Shorei-ryu & Kumdo & TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Stuff like this:

    Traditional versus Contemporary Associate Master Tony Gray
    Recently while "surfing" through a message board I ran across a posting questioning why the students in Lexington continue to wear gi's.

    The answer is a simple one. It is to honor the tradition that was started by Grandmaster Ie Chang Ming. Grandmaster Ie used the Japanese gi's and belt system to disguise Shao-Lin away from the government officials in Indonesia. The government had outlawed all Chinese martial arts.

    Grandmaster Ie was a man of great foresight; he realized that if the art was to continue to survive it needed to be "hidden" from the authorities, while still practicing right under their noses. So he made the decision to go away from the normal practice attire and started using the Japanese gi. To further more confuse the authorities he also implemented a belt system, again along the lines of the Japanese martial arts. The name was changed to Shao-Lin Do. When the authorities came by the school to visit, they saw a Chinese art being practiced, but using a Japanese name, uniform and belt system which left them with the impression that it was a Japanese art form.

    When Grandmaster Sin The' came to the United States he carried on this tradition of wearing a gi and using the belt system for ranking purposes and to give those students some type of gauge as to where they had progressed to. Again, though it was mainly done to honor his teacher, whom he had gained all of his knowledge and skills from.

    For those who want to use the Sams and say that if Shao Lin is a traditional Chinese art all the students need to wear them, I have a question. Have you done your research? If you have, you will know that those who practiced martial arts in the monasteries wore a gi like uniform and those that practiced outside of the monasteries wore their every day clothing. They did not have a special uniform to go out and practice in. Sams are a creation of the movie industry and what it wants to present as a traditional uniform.

    As for the ranking system within Chinese Martial Arts, there are only four traditional levels.

    1st Student, 2nd Disciple, 3rd Master, 4th Grandmaster. That was all; there were no belts, no sashes.

    Everyone knew who was who and respected their elders and those who outranked them. This was practiced throughout all aspects of their lives from sleeping quarters to the eating halls, to the daily chores that needed to be done. Only when your master thought you worthy to move to the next room did you move into that room.

    There have been statements made that some traditions need to be done away with or changed. My reply to that is. "If you forget about the traditions of the past, you have no compass for the future."

    When I normally practice my material away from a formal class, I personally wear just a pair of gi pants and a t shirt.

    When I first started Shoa Lin Do, Master Leonard made a statement to several of us who had just failed our first test. "It does not matter what belt you have around your waist, it only matters what you can do." His next statement still rings in my ears to this day.

    "You can take my belt, my certificate and burn them; however you can not take my knowledge and skills away from me." I have always remembered that statement and when a student has not passed their pre-test I use it.

    So the next time you want to say that you want to be a "traditional Chinese martial artist", just remember. The traditional Chinese martial artists wore their daily clothing or a gi like clothing and had no outward appearance of any rank.
    Or even this:

    Masters

    ~Note: I will not even mention the fact that their history section does not link the art to Chinese kung fu.

    If you are going to keep up with your research I would recommend that you cross reference the dates given with the actual events of Chinese history. Also, I would question why they still use Japanese terms in a Chinese school. There is no reason to "hide" anymore. Also how can one hide a Chinese form from officials. Karate looked nothing like Chinese boxing. You can drape on a gi and use all the Japanese terminology you would like, but Shaolin Boxing and Karate did not resemble each other. I am pretty sure the government would have known that.
    Last edited by Miguksaram; 5/20/2004 12:22pm at .
    Jeremy M. Talbott

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
    Quote Originally Posted by D.Murray
    "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
    Quote Originally Posted by hangooknamja88 View Post
    My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


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  6. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    One Ambulance, Eleven Cops...

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2004 1:20pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also of note: Shaolin Do purports to teach double hook swords. Double hook swords are only found in the north, so if Shaolin Do is founded in the south, where did the double hook sword work come from?!?
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  7. Meat Shake is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2004 1:48pm


     Style: Iron Chef

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Shaolin-Do purports to teach everything.
    I was told they contain the entire Bak-Mei system somewhere in the 3rd degree blackbelt smattering of forms. Throw out any chinese style to an avid SDer and you'll get "Oh yeah, we have (instert style here) at (instert belt level here)."
  8. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    One Ambulance, Eleven Cops...

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2004 2:05pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Anyone who claims to have the "entire" Bak-Mei system is suspect. I doubt the system exists in its entirety anywhere, it is extremely rare in and of itself.
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  9. Meat Shake is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2004 2:08pm


     Style: Iron Chef

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Bak mei has always interested me, but iI live in texas. Hearing about it will have to do... add to that as you said the suspicion of most places that teach it....
    But I was using that as an example. They say they teach everything.
  10. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    One Ambulance, Eleven Cops...

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2004 2:11pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Search for "white eyebrow" then, we have had some discussions.
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
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