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  1. #1

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Can Aikido be MADE useful?

    I know the average opinion about Aikido in this forum, but I have a question. Suppose someone goes to Japan and finds a very good dojo, where the sensei is a realistic guy so there's a lot of sparring, they practice the moves with resisting ukes etc. Say he spends 4 hours practicing, every day, for ten years. Do you think he'd have a chance in a fight against someone who had spent the previous ten years practicing judo? What about muay thai?

    TLDR: Is at all possible to improve training to make Aikido (as one's only martial art) useful in a fight?

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    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    Sorry for the wait thread/post approved.
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    “I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Slamming the man in the bottom position from time to time keeps everybody on their toes and discourages butt scooting stupidity.

  3. #3
    goodlun's Avatar
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    sigh, 1st off why do they have to "Go to Japan" this **** irks me. Its part of that mythical thinking, Aikido is practiced all over the globe.
    I would estimate that there is easily 1,500,000 people doing Aikido world wide. If good Aikido where to be found it could be found ANYWHERE not just in some long lost dojo in Japan.
    The answer to your question is most likely a very BIG NO.
    What is the point of spending 14560 hours trying to make something of it?
    When you know you can spend far less time making something of other arts?
    Being a car guy let me put it this way. You can make ANY car fast with enough money. It gets to be a bit more tricky make a car that is not designed to be made fast, fast and still retain the soul of what that car is. Is a car really still the same car if you drop in a twin turbo LSx? Is a car more than just the shell around the outside?
    Do you get what I am saying?
    Is Aikido, Aikido, if in the end all you are doing is Judo in silly pants?
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hero for Hire View Post
    I know the average opinion about Aikido in this forum, but I have a question. Suppose someone goes to Japan and finds a very good dojo, where the sensei is a realistic guy so there's a lot of sparring, they practice the moves with resisting ukes etc. Say he spends 4 hours practicing, every day, for ten years. Do you think he'd have a chance in a fight against someone who had spent the previous ten years practicing judo? What about muay thai?

    TLDR: Is at all possible to improve training to make Aikido (as one's only martial art) useful in a fight?
    You can't make Aikido work because most people don't know why they're doing Aikido, those who have attained rank think they've found the right Aikido and most of the techniques in Aikido aren't really supposed to work. If you want to learn Aikido that works try doing some BJJ, they understand how Aikido is supposed to work.

  5. #5
    DCS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hero for Hire View Post
    TLDR: Is at all possible to improve training to make Aikido (as one's only martial art) useful in a fight?
    Is it possible? Yes. Is it going to happen anytime soon? Not probably.

  6. #6

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    If someone has a serious background in Gracie Jiu-Jitsu or submission grappling, and then studies Aikido techniques and begins to apply them in real grappling randori sessions against other skilled grapplers, he or she will begin to produce a repertoire of (presumably adapted) Aikido moves that they can make work in live rolls.
    Aikido comes from Daitu Ryu JuJutsu, the foundational technique ideas had some basis in reality, but the style of training in many Aikido schools, compounded over time, may have reduced the practical knowledge base of how to get to apply those techniques against live and resisting opponents who have grappling training themselves.
    But we see standing wristlocks get used in high level BJJ black divisions to devastating effect from time to time.

  7. #7
    DdlR's Avatar
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    I don't think that Aikido was ever primarily intended to "work" in the sense of being proven via competition, nor even necessarily as self defense. Uyeshiba was a mystic inspired by a vision of universal peace and harmony, and so he created a -do that was supposed to physically embody that philosophy; other considerations were secondary.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    If someone has a serious background in Gracie Jiu-Jitsu or submission grappling, and then studies Aikido techniques and begins to apply them in real grappling randori sessions against other skilled grapplers, he or she will begin to produce a repertoire of (presumably adapted) Aikido moves that they can make work in live rolls.
    Aikido comes from Daitu Ryu JuJutsu, the foundational technique ideas had some basis in reality, but the style of training in many Aikido schools, compounded over time, may have reduced the practical knowledge base of how to get to apply those techniques against live and resisting opponents who have grappling training themselves.
    But we see standing wristlocks get used in high level BJJ black divisions to devastating effect from time to time.
    Dude, **** you and your articulating concise and poignant explanation of what I fucking said earlier. (Nat Diaz voice)

  9. #9

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Aikido mostly seems to be a compilation of low to ultra low percentage techniques many of which require an opponent to grab your wrist, hang on while somehow allowing you to pull them off balance and out of position, and take a fall instead of moving their feet to negate your control...

    Or attack you with a lunging overhand chop, because that's how it happens in the STREETZ.

    To echo what was said before, you can use wristlocks in BJJ. That's probably as close as anyone is ever going to get to applied aikido and it absolutely does not require studying any aikido to pull off.

    It looks great in the movies though...

    So does wing chun when Donnie Yen is doing it...

    Actually Silat looked pretty cool in that movie The Raid...

    Why be a fighter when you can just play one in tv?

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by BJMills View Post
    Aikido mostly seems to be a compilation of low to ultra low percentage techniques many of which require an opponent to grab your wrist, hang on while somehow allowing you to pull them off balance and out of position, and take a fall instead of moving their feet to negate your control...

    Or attack you with a lunging overhand chop, because that's how it happens in the STREETZ.

    To echo what was said before, you can use wristlocks in BJJ. That's probably as close as anyone is ever going to get to applied aikido and it absolutely does not require studying any aikido to pull off.

    It looks great in the movies though...

    So does wing chun when Donnie Yen is doing it...

    Actually Silat looked pretty cool in that movie The Raid...

    Why be a fighter when you can just play one in tv?
    Some Aikido people use an open handed Shomenate to the face instead of the choppy-chop.
    Surprisingly, the palm strike/push Shomenate to the face is a surprisingly useful thing to do in standing or ground grappling environments.
    I say this because a BJJ black belt / ex-college wrestler friend of mine and I played with it, and really annoyed the hell out of each other with it in a live drilling/rolling fashion for experimental fun.
    You can use it as an off balancing push, a spinal disalignment grappling maneuver, or even a Bas Rutten style open palm strike.
    Plus when you push into people's noses, their eyes water, when you push into their eyes they blink, and even just turning their face can be very annoying.
    Of course, doing anything in a predictable and uni-dimensional fashion is a recipe to get hit with strong exploitive counter offense.
    But anyway, the two main points are:
    (1) not every Aikido group is chi based, some of them have some fun roughness to them and also cross train heavily in Judo, and
    (2) Some of the Aikido techniques actually seem useful in their right context...if you can get them, and if you practice them, and if you have an expert level in some more "hard" grappling style like BJJ, Wrestling, Judo, or Sambo.

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