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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bneterasedmynam View Post
    I will go toes up on this one. Pointing them down just seems like an accident waiting to happen.

    Just out of curiosity what is the consensus on leg position during the check?? Basically to Weidman or not to Weidman??
    According to this: http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/12/3...-mma-technique
    "to Weidman" is simply blocking with the upper [knee side] part of the shin (instead of blocking with the lower [ankle-side] part of the shin.) I didn't realize that anyone taught not-to-Weidman.

    Though now that you mention it, that not-to-Weidman seems to be part of the toes-down-technique used in that Expert Villiage video.

  2. #12

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    Evidence toes-down was popular in 90's era kickboxing (when I learned my striking back in the day):
    at 38 seconds, 48 seconds.

    With that said, I am seeing a high level of consensus here on Bullshido about toes-up being preferable.

    Toes up: 4

    Toes down: 0

    A high priority for me personally is ergonomics, and the toes up position seems to hurt less when you are using it to block, and it feels less awkward to do than toes-down.

    If anyone has insight on the history two different techniques (toes up vs. toes down) that would be interesting. [All I have so far is the difference between the Golden Rooster moves in Chen (older, toes up) vs. Yang (newer, toes down) styles of Tai Chi, irrelevant to the history of striking in MMA.]

  3. #13
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFGalbraith View Post
    According to this: http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/12/3...-mma-technique
    "to Weidman" is simply blocking with the upper [knee side] part of the shin (instead of blocking with the lower [ankle-side] part of the shin.) I didn't realize that anyone taught not-to-Weidman.

    Though now that you mention it, that not-to-Weidman seems to be part of the toes-down-technique used in that Expert Villiage video.
    To weidman is to not block with the shin so much as the lower knee portion of the leg.

  4. #14
    ChenPengFi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    The muscle on the lateral side of the Shin tense when you flex your foot "up", providing more protection for the shin, so I vote "toes up".
    Most of the muscles in that area (tibialis ant. being the biggest) do indeed dorsiflex the ankle.


    Interesting exception is peroneus longus which assists in plantarflexion and is also where the large peroneal nerve is running.




    I'm not sure if that favors a technique.

    It also bears noting that you can also tighten muscles at full length, so toes down doesn't mean "soft" tibialis ant.
    A shortened muscle is fatter too.
    More questions than answers.


    You can see their relationship here.
    The meaty part of the gastrocnemius and soleus are deeper than peroneus laterally, and also plantarflex.
    Last edited by ChenPengFi; 3/27/2017 8:10pm at .

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    To weidman is to not block with the shin so much as the lower knee portion of the leg.
    I don't think he is trying to block the shin with his knee cap, I think he is using the high part of his shin, though yes, compared to other types of blocking leg kicks, he is relatively blocking with the front/lowest part of what is popularly described as part of the knee:


    See also 2 minutes 40 seconds of the following video:
    Last edited by BFGalbraith; 3/29/2017 12:42am at .

  6. #16

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    I got to spar tonight using this toes up leg block, it didn't take much to convert to toes up, feels natural. I was able to throw front kicks off the "toes up" block with my lead leg just as easily as the toes down I was used to.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    Most of the muscles in that area (tibialis ant. being the biggest) do indeed dorsiflex the ankle.


    Interesting exception is peroneus longus which assists in plantarflexion and is also where the large peroneal nerve is running.




    I'm not sure if that favors a technique.

    It also bears noting that you can also tighten muscles at full length, so toes down doesn't mean "soft" tibialis ant.
    A shortened muscle is fatter too.
    More questions than answers.


    You can see their relationship here.
    The meaty part of the gastrocnemius and soleus are deeper than peroneus laterally, and also plantarflex.
    OK, now I have to ask. Has anyone heard of a low round kick while pulling the toes up, instead of pointing the toes down (away from the bag)?

    ChengPengFi I recall a CLF low sweep connecting with the the shin in certain CLF forms, but the toes are not pointed away from the knee, they are pulled towards the knee... for an example of this see 48 seconds of the following video:

  8. #18
    ChenPengFi's Avatar
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    Sweeping a shin is less than ideal.
    There are a lot of hooking movements but I've never seen a sweep directly to the shin taught.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    Sweeping a shin is less than ideal.
    There are a lot of hooking movements but I've never seen a sweep directly to the shin taught.
    Harai Tsurikomi Ashi hits lower shin. Definitely a foot sweep. Not Shin to Shin though if that's what you mean.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Harai Tsurikomi Ashi hits lower shin. Definitely a foot sweep. Not Shin to Shin though if that's what you mean.
    Shin contact in that case is kind of more like a rudder though isn't it?

    The one guy I know that hits that throw rather savagely really drives his belly button into it,

    and I almost think that he is making an entire displacing plane of his leg against uke's leg that is being swept back, and then he rotates people over the resulting wedge while they are forced on to one leg.

    If he does it to his lapel grip side even other Judo black belts find it hard not to try and post out on the free hand on the way down.

    I'm always more nervous than he is when he demonstrates that throw or hits that throw on my mats on his lapel grip side.
    Last edited by WFMurphyPhD; 3/29/2017 2:57pm at .

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