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  1. #11

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BJJ descends from Judo. Judo primarily descends from Kito Ryu (1600s) and Tenjin Shin'yo Ryu (1800s).

    If that's not tradition I don't know what is!
    Last edited by kendamu; 3/10/2017 9:46pm at . Reason: Fixing some dates

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    So how long to you think it would take to "master" BJJ ?

    I mean, I can imagine how getting into MMA might be a bit discouraging, but BJJ has quite a bit of tradition to it.
    100 years might do it; but I might be undershooting it.

  3. #13

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Antonb1985 View Post
    Tradition and interest in the art itself. Took MMA/BJJ and found no interest, has no principles, traditions and anything involving art has been completely stripped of it. I do not see it as something one can dedicate their life to mastering.
    I find the sweeping generalization you made to be odd, based on a few decades in and around combat sports.

    What school did you train at, who was the instructor, what was their resume of accomplishment, and what is their lineage?

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by kendamu View Post
    BJJ descends from Judo. Judo primarily descends from Kito Ryu (1600s) and Tenjin Shin'yo Ryu (1800s).

    If that's not tradition I don't know what is!
    Don't forget Sumo. And to some extent Western Wrestling.

    Jigoro Kano studied Sumo extensively along side of studying JuJutsu to form Judo.

    And, Jigoro Kano was a serious scholar of everything Western.

    So, Kano studied Wrestling, perhaps not with the same depth and rigor of Sumo and JuJutsu, but to certain extent.

    For that matter, he invited Karate instructors to the Kodokan, and also sent some of his top Kodokan Judo students to study under the founder of Aikido.

  5. #15
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Antonb1985 View Post
    Tradition and interest in the art itself. Took MMA/BJJ and found no interest, has no principles, traditions and anything involving art has been completely stripped of it. I do not see it as something one can dedicate their life to mastering.
    Lmao. Good stuff man! I could use a little comedy as I sit here sipping my Jonnie Walker Gold Label.

    Perhaps you could explain the qualifications of a martial art worth dedicating your life to?I apparently need to reevaluate my life choices.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    Lmao. Good stuff man! I could use a little comedy as I sit here sipping my Jonnie Walker Gold Label.

    Perhaps you could explain the qualifications of a martial art worth dedicating your life to?I apparently need to reevaluate my life choices.
    I keep telling you to stop being fooled by cheap knock offs.

    If the label says Jonnie Walker instead of Johnnie Walker, you have either had too much or you have been fooled again, my friend.

  7. #17
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    100 years might do it; but I might be undershooting it.
    That's a deep question to ponder. When does mastery begin?

  8. #18
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    That's a deep question to ponder. When does mastery begin?
    What is Mastery for that matter...
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    That's a deep question to ponder. When does mastery begin?
    I am not even a master of the various names for the same move.

    There is a common idea that most black belts are black belt level or better in a few games,

    and then a lower belt level in other parts of the repertoire that they have neglected due to specialization in their favorite competitive games.

    So, if you can pull them in those other parts of the pool, sometimes a lesser player overall can beat a generally superior player.

    Of course, I suspect this might be obvious for most people on this board.

    Mathematically, if you draw someone away from the move they practiced 10,000 times to a move they have only practiced a couple thousand times, this is generally a profitable tactic.
    Last edited by WFMurphyPhD; 3/10/2017 10:40pm at .

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    What is Mastery for that matter...
    I don't know; by the time I have learned something fairly well, I have forgotten other things, and then have to start the whole process all over again.

    Also, the truly competent often know or have a sense at least of what they don't know or where they are not competent.

    Whereas the ignorant or incompetent often walk around with the confidence of Superman, not knowing or suspecting just how far from the minimally acceptable target zone they really are.

    Further, people are often Gods in their own rooms. Students often desire to please the instructor, even if they roll hard, they hold back a bit. And in a room full of scrubs, a move will work as if it were brilliant, when in reality it will get you eaten when attempted against more serious competition.

    I am embarrassed in part to type this in response to one of Ben's posts, as he is also old enough and experienced enough to realize his own incompetence, and this is in its own way the most profound compliment I can give: that somebody has enough experience to know or at least suspect where they suck.

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