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  1. #1
    Wounded Ronin's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    So what's your first take on the Republican healthcare plan?

    So it looks like the Republican healthcare plan has just been unveiled: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/06/u...=top-news&_r=0

    My initial impression is that it could have been framed all along as an Obamacare reform rather than a repeal. Its viability would depend among other things on nitty gritty details like how much various aspects would cost and estimates for this haven't been released yet. I can see how the Republicans basically tried to keep the things most people like while providing relief to those constituents who ended up with gigantic premiums and deductibles under the current ACA (which is basically a problem with the income based tax credits, which are being reduced and overhauled under the Republican proposal). It also gets rid of some of the employer mandates, which makes sense since I know that many small businesses were lobbying against that part of the law; truth be told, even some liberals felt that insurance shouldn't be tied to employment.

    Towards the beginning of the articles it is stated that the proposal would roll back the medicaid expansion, but later in the article it also states that the federal government would provide $100 billion over 9 years to the states to basically subsidize insurance, and it also states "The bill would provide each state with a fixed allotment of federal money for each person on Medicaid, the federal-state program for more than 70 million low-income people. The federal government would pay different amounts for different categories of beneficiaries, including children, older Americans and people with disabilities." So basically it's yet another tweak.

    There's also a thing in there to defund Planned Parenthood which is just symptomatic on how serious policy issues like healthcare keep getting hijacked or distracted by political posturing. Considering how quickly this thing was drafted, it's kind of frustrating the Republicans didn't draft this same thing when Obama was in office so that when they did all their operatic repeal motions they at least had a counter proposal instead of just being vague, contrarian, and hyperbolic. That behavior has caused a lot of political problems now where it has created reluctance among the base to accept any realistic alternative health bill.

    Just as I seem to be getting the feeling that this is basically reformed Obamacare, the article states that certain people are already complaining that it's "Obamacare lite".

    So after reviewing the proposal, what is your first impression?
    Last edited by Wounded Ronin; 3/07/2017 11:41am at .
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  2. #2
    BKR's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It appears to substitute "tax credits" for out and out subsidies. Of course, "tax credit" means you get a refund at the end of the year from the general fund, so, a rose by any other name...

    Another shell game. At least the Dems are honest and just give people money directly, more or less.

    They do away with the forced buying of insurance, but if you don't, the insurance companies can charge you more...

    Whoopie...
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  3. #3
    BKR's Avatar
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    LOL, wrong thread...
    Last edited by BKR; 3/07/2017 12:42pm at .
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

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  4. #4
    Wounded Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    It appears to substitute "tax credits" for out and out subsidies. Of course, "tax credit" means you get a refund at the end of the year from the general fund, so, a rose by any other name...

    Another shell game. At least the Dems are honest and just give people money directly, more or less.

    They do away with the forced buying of insurance, but if you don't, the insurance companies can charge you more...

    Whoopie...
    The "shell game" is right. In order to disguise or hide the extent that government is involved in something, we get overly complicated and expensive work arounds and shell games that basically make things less efficient.

    Steven Teles called this sort of thing "kludgeocracy": https://www.newamerica.org/economic-...way-of-policy/
    Best Vietnam War music video I've ever seen put together by a vet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDY8raKsdfg

  5. #5

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm British so can't really claim to know the American healthcare system

    I guess the Republicans had to frame it as a repeal, they have been telling their voters that ACA is a disaster an affront to 'Freedom' and against the American way. I have always wondered how Christian values mix with being happy to watch someones entire family go bankrupt fighting a serious illness. Pro life until birth but after you can go to the gutter to die, but could you do it quietly please.

    Will be interesting to see what removing the mandate to get coverage does to the cost of healthcare for older voters their premiums will rise of the insurers can't offset the cost using younger voters who may decide to take the risk to opt out. That would be a mistake of course, no one knows when they are about to need serious healthcare.

  6. #6
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You really need to catch up on politics. He screamed repeal to get into office and then they all started saying modifications once they dug into the system. Each president wants his own baby so to speak. So, ObamaCare needs to be "repealed" so, Trump can say "Look at what I did."

    No, he is not the first, nor will he be the last to tear down his predecessors actions.

  7. #7
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickosaurus View Post
    I'm British so can't really claim to know the American healthcare system

    I guess the Republicans had to frame it as a repeal, they have been telling their voters that ACA is a disaster an affront to 'Freedom' and against the American way. I have always wondered how Christian values mix with being happy to watch someones entire family go bankrupt fighting a serious illness. Pro life until birth but after you can go to the gutter to die, but could you do it quietly please.
    This is why I do not like the media. This is FAR from the truth. Just like the lie being told about "Trump making it legal for the Mentally Ill to purchase guns," there was and is a mechanism in place for mentally ill people not to purchase guns. There was and is a system in place to get medical care without insurance. While it was the debt the uncovered were incurring which caused people to want universal healthcare, you still go in debt with insurance. It's one of the bigger lies told for decades about our broken healthcare system. The ACA didn't stop people from going into debt.

    Will be interesting to see what removing the mandate to get coverage does to the cost of healthcare for older voters their premiums will rise of the insurers can't offset the cost using younger voters who may decide to take the risk to opt out. That would be a mistake of course, no one knows when they are about to need serious healthcare.
    Insurance companies did this to get Obamacare repealed. If this plan works to the insurance companies benefit, they will keep premiums in line with what lines their pockets the best. The government barely controls or regulates insurance cor Pharmaceutical companies. It's why you can get the same pills or surgical procedures for 50% or higher off outside of the US. Yes, many countries have caught up to the US in medical procedures.

    The entire system is broken and pay for play.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 3/07/2017 12:23pm at .

  8. #8
    DCS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickosaurus View Post
    I have always wondered how Christian values mix with being happy to watch someones entire family go bankrupt fighting a serious illness.
    Christian values are about charity. This way they can feel good without adressing what is the cause lots of people can't afford being cured. .

  9. #9
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    We have to pass it to see what's in it.

    .....something along that line...

  10. #10
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The main problem of Obamacare is how the word "Obama" makes it immediately distasteful to conservatives.

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