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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by kimjonghng View Post
    Which of the two is better, well that I would love to see argued in the only way Bullshido knows how
    This site does have its own unique charm in that regard.

    More to the OP, and topic at hand, just because the sum total of a specific style has been demonstrated repeatedly to be complete crap, doesn't necessarily mean that there is absolutely nothing of value at all.

    I can honestly say that I have personally ended fights using pressure points, hard karate strikes, and unorthodox tactics (think eye-gouging). Full disclosure-these were all isolated incidents, and I have not successfully used any of these methods, or even TRIED to apply any of these methods to a real fight, since before I graduated high school.

    Most intellectually honest people will recognize pressure point fighting, as a system, to be a terribly flawed approach to combat. That being said, I can still vouch for the effectiveness of digging your thumbs directly behind the ears of someone and applying it as a hail Mary technique out of pure desperation, if you are a 60ish lb. 10-11 year old weakling, and you are being pinned down and smothered by someone who is literally twice your size (quite possibly more).

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    5. LARPing. A large part of the appeal for both arts is that you get to dress up in funny costumes, use Japanese terminology, and pretend to be wise.

    I might do a "What's Wrong with Ninjutsu?" video somewhere down the road.
    In defense of these students, most of them don't realize that they are LARPing. They are sold on the notion that what they are doing is "authentic training".

    I tend to be less forgiving of obstinate denial of reality in this day and age, since we have the totality of human knowledge at our fingertips, via the internet.

    When I got sucked into the Booj in the mid-90s, I was basically looking for what I now know to be koryu. In those days, there was very little in the way of resource material readily available to even explain that, much less show me that the Booj was most definitely NOT where it was to be found.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by kimjonghng View Post
    as an ex-boojer I sometimes find myself wondering about the art and if it is worth me discarding everything I know or dropping it entirely. I actually went to a Bujinkan school some time ago even after a few years off the style, what i found was.

    1. Compliant training. There was a guy there who was a krav and boxer dude who did resist and shat on many of the more advanced students all the way through the class by showing their techniques weren't working.
    2. Nothing too special to differ the grappling from judo except low resistance
    3. No real pain compliance placed and no real fight finishers
    4. Many of the class seemed out of shape and throwing themselves around a bit too much, like they werent used to getting hit or thrown hard.

    Anyway, last night I found out there's an aikido place with a trial month on, and I figured 'sod it' and went to see what it was like. I saw what I expected from the posts Ive seen: gentle warm up, started with meditation (always nice, if nothing else). Lots of stepping and tenkan, projection, balance training. Sword work followed some grip work and pins. What got me interested here was that there was a lot of stuff I'd seen in my booj days with more detail on how it worked and how to make good pins. Some points from Judo crossed over with body mechanics and balance usage, which I thought was cool if nothing else. At the end of the class, there was a 'randori' session. This entailed the class getting into small groups and rushing one person, sometimes one at a time, sometimes in multitudes and in this case it was important to use strategy to throw people into each other. Seemed okay as an exercise. All in all some parts of it felt like it was reminiscent of the bujinkan in some ways, and I feel Im seeing some of the connection due to the jujitsu roots (and also in some ways, how some technical aspects cross over from Judo.

    Anyway, I was wondering what the opinions were of aikido practitioners on if there was much in the way of translatability between the two? What I saw made me think there might well be some elements of Aikido that definitely overlap
    Considering the majority of Aikido today and Bujinkan are both rooted in a modern interpretation of classical Jujutsu ryu there are bound to be similarities. The main difference is traditional Aikido stresses good body mechanics in the context of demonstration- regardless of if they can be applied literally in live grappling.

    In Japan Aikido, Karate and other Budo are taken rather seriously in terms of correct execution of the syllabus. Therefore, in spite of its combat effectiveness or lack thereof, a lot of focus is put on both aesthetic and technical quality. Bujinkan however, tends to be universally poor ninja themed krotty with a fetish for imitating the pantomime that is classical Jujutsu. However, whilst one can appreciate the technical performance of a legitimate Koryu demonstration in the theatrical sense, Bujinkan tends to skimp on the details and be a let down not only in the fighting department, but the aforementioned technical context as well.

    Therefore If you are interested in role play with a sense of skill then a Koryu is a better bet. Bujinkan is pretty poor in any department besides, perhaps, variety. This wouldn't be such an issue if the quality was up to a half decent standard consistently, but it isn't. This is without even delving into the lack of aliveness. Long story short, with Ninjutsu you end up kind of shitty in most departments without cross training.

    At least solid, traditional Aikido can conceptually act as an expansion to a pre-existing Judo base.
    Last edited by Aka-Tora; 2/05/2017 1:37pm at .

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    5. LARPing. A large part of the appeal for both arts is that you get to dress up in funny costumes, use Japanese terminology, and pretend to be wise.

    I might do a "What's Wrong with Ninjutsu?" video somewhere down the road.
    A 'What's wrong with ninjutsu,' video is too easy. Everything I've ever heard or seen about that art falls into the wrong category.

    Do a 'what's right with ninjutsu,' video and I'll be genuinely impressed...

    Because really, I don't think it's possible.

  5. #15
    ermghoti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJMills View Post
    Do a 'what's right with ninjutsu,' video and I'll be genuinely impressed...

    Because really, I don't think it's possible.
    "Systema, which means, 'the system'..."

    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil
    Why is it so goddamn hard to find a video of it? I've seen videos I'm pretty sure are alien spacecraft. But still no good Krav.
    Quote Originally Posted by Plasma
    At the point, I must act! You see my rashguard saids "Jiu Jitsu vs The World" and "The World" was standing in front me teaching Anti-Grappling in a school I help run.
    [quote=SoulMechanic]Thank you, not dying really rewarding in more ways than I can express.[/[quote]

  6. #16

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Do a 'what's right with ninjutsu,' video and I'll be genuinely impressed...
    Easy. Without Ninjas, we wouldn't have all this:








  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    Easy. Without Ninjas, we wouldn't have all this:







    You forgot the best one


    Cause nothing is as awesomely effective like a South Sea Islander trained in the ways of the Shinobi

  8. #18

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    but the true question is, what happens if aikido harmonizes with a ninja? or better yet, what if a master ninja is met with the aikido-ka? does the aikido-ka blend so well he to, turns invisible?

  9. #19

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If I remember Bujinkan Budi Taijutsu claims to "include" smth like 10+ tradtitional Japanese Ryus

    How can someone take this seriously if many of them are so that learning even ONE of them in its entirety would take smth like 15 or more years?

    I knew one guy who used to train BBT

    One session included blocking thrown shurikens with a katana in a forest

    Yes, it really did

    What in the serious ****

  10. #20

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GrouchyOldMan View Post
    In defense of these students, most of them don't realize that they are LARPing. They are sold on the notion that what they are doing is "authentic training".

    I tend to be less forgiving of obstinate denial of reality in this day and age, since we have the totality of human knowledge at our fingertips, via the internet.

    When I got sucked into the Booj in the mid-90s, I was basically looking for what I now know to be koryu. In those days, there was very little in the way of resource material readily available to even explain that, much less show me that the Booj was most definitely NOT where it was to be found.
    I'll admit up front I don't know **** about ninjas or training to be ninjas (I read http://ninjaencyclopedia.com once). I find the whole idea of taking martial arts lessons to pretend to be a stealth assassin completely comical. What I know of the "Bujinkan" is that they claim to own the heritage of martial antiquities that are at best, quite long gone and at worst, heavily embellished by modern interpretation and marketing. I read somewhere the owner of the Bujinkan ninja school has over 100,000 students, too...which heavily suggests it is watered down. You never find good judo or jujitsu instructors that claim that sort of bullshit, do you.

    I think I disagree that the internet brings the "totality" of human knowledge to anybody. It's just a big system of computers with a shitload of public media, and a lot of that media is garbage. It doesn't contain, for instance, a lot of non-public information, like trade secrets, proprietary knowledge bases, or private catalogs of things like specimens, books, and other knick-knacks.

    That's where I think the Bujinkan gets away with their charade. They can always point to the fact that the Internet doesn't contain everything, and there are of course always secrets to be kept and passed on, like scrolls and artifacts. If these things were actually ON the Internet or even on display somewhere public (and thus on the Internet), things would be different. It's the secrecy of not making these things public that casts a lot of shade, in my opinion.

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