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  1. #11
    DCS's Avatar
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    In the comments section Justin Morris says he knows Nic since he (Nic) was a blue and Morris a purple. From here and here Morris was a fresh purple in late 2003.

  2. #12
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    To the original poster .

    Besides random accusations what proof do you have that their belts were bought & sold?

    You talk about "Honor in Martial Arts" yet you're throwing around accusations of basically them having fake credentials and you don't seem to have anything that resembles proof.

    How do you know that belts are being sold? Who told you? How do they know? What makes you believe they are credible? Did they show you proof?

    Can these dudes fight? Are they knowledgeable? Are you knowledgeable enough to make that determination?
    Last edited by Raycetpfl; 1/04/2017 12:49pm at .

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    To the original poster .

    Besides random accusations what proof do you have that their belts were bought & sold?

    You talk about "Honor in Martial Arts" yet you're throwing around accusations of basically them having fake credentials and you don't seem to have anything that resembles proof.

    How do you know that belts are being sold? Who told you? How do they know? What makes you believe they are credible? Did they show you proof?

    Can these dudes fight? Are they knowledgeable? Are you knowledgeable enough to make that determination?


    I am not accusing anyone as I said before, I am just going off what I found with a google search, but this rabbit hole goes deeper I believe..

    Multiple sources claimed the person was "selling belts" and as I said there are many black belts in very small towns around me. These are not the only 2, awarded from the same person who are in his association, it made me highly suspicious.


    http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/foru...-be:2036616-12

    "Fuzzy Badfeet - ...these two jive-asses nic and wade are the only part I have in this because I rolled with them and know they are blue belts. anyone else is outside my lane, frankly"

    "I bet you that even though every marcello guy on this thread now knows he is a dealer. he sells affiliation, and belts to those affiliates, that not ONE of them will leave. If at this point you have read all of this, and you stay with monteiro then you are admiting that the money, authority, and prestige afforded to you as a result of being a blackbelt is more important to you than legitimately BEING blackbelt."


    See my other links in the original post for more.. No I am not knowledgeable enough to make any determination, that is why I came here to the experts at weeding out the BS, as I said there is more to this story and I do not think it is unfounded. I will continue to dig deeper and post any information about this, thank you everyone for the help.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryBowman View Post
    Id look into or ask about these guys competition records. If they competed you will know when and at what belt and you can gauge how quickly the received their black belts. Its also tough to fake skills in actual competition and a blue belt competing with a legit black belt should be exposed pretty quickly. Just doing a cursory search, I found two videos of Barden competing as a black belt, so at least it appears as if he's putting his skills up against other black belts. Couldn't find anything on Huebing...


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    I found some on youtube also which I did not think of looking there thanks. He looks talented, but It seems he needs to add a couple losses in his record or he is just omitting them. Both of them say 3-0 record on their sites.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlrFIzbQgiY
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm9TAAnbJBw
    His channel. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdi...ABUFN9hRdKQ5KQ


    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    In the comments section Justin Morris says he knows Nic since he (Nic) was a blue and Morris a purple. From here and here Morris was a fresh purple in late 2003.
    “He trains with every one of his students,” Justin Morris said. That sounds a bit odd to me. Who doesnt train with their students? Thanks for the info.

    Maybe I am over paranoid or something but my experiences with teachers in the past has not been good. I really want to thank everyone for looking into this and giving advice.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by herb View Post
    “He trains with every one of his students,” Justin Morris said. That sounds a bit odd to me. Who doesnt train with their students?
    I believe in big clubs, run by big names, the probabilities of training with the main instructor are scarce.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    I believe in big clubs, run by big names, the probabilities of training with the main instructor are scarce.
    As an example, at one of our schools, we have three regular adult BJJ classes a day plus women's classes.

    I teach one of those adult Monday through Friday classes a day
    (the class for mainly older and more senior ranked students, who get to attend that class by invitation only),
    and I also give between 10 to 20 private lessons a week.

    The other standing Monday through Friday classes, particularly the two general public adult BJJ classes, are taught by my students who are themselves BJJ black belts.

    If you are the senior ranked guy, it usually a good thing for everybody to have the new black belts get teaching time.

    First, it's good for the new black belts (and the brown belts and everybody really) to learn how to teach.

    Second, it's good for the room because each black belt usually brings their own unique specializations to the room.

    Third, if you as the senior black belt teach all the general classes it can interfere with you having the personal bandwidth to give the high level or up and coming students individual training to accelerate their development.

    Fourth, senior instructors are often (but not always) older.
    In my case, I am middle aged with kids.
    I tire easily, bruise easily, and I make sure that I meet my other obligations.

    Fifth, I do not always keep up with the new move names for old moves, or the latest grappling crazes like the new black belts do; so it is good to get the new black belts in teaching circulation with the up and coming students.
    Conversely, I often am able to pull obscure grappling techniques, applications, trivia, and history from my old muddled brain that people act like they have not seen before or have not thought of. Grappling tricks often cycle in an out of fashion.

    Finally, as a martial arts instructor or a leader in any organization, you should never ever make yourself indispensable.
    You should never give yourself (nor trust yourself) with dictator like power.
    Set up a flat, empowered, and delegated leadership team structure rather than a pyramid shaped leadership team structure.
    Encourage people in co-leadership positions to disagree with you, even when it is inconvenient for you.
    Allow for mechanisms where the owners of various areas of responsibility outside of your own have to be satisfied and can overrule you in their areas of responsibility.
    Groom up replacements.
    Be able to take vacations, get sick, or retire without the organization having to stop or slow or taking much of a hit because of it.
    Select, train, and groom up people to be better than you are - to teach better, to grapple better, to make you tap, and throw you.
    And, when your lieutenants want to spilt off and form their own organizations, do everything you can to help them.
    Last edited by WFMurphyPhD; 1/05/2017 11:06am at .

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    As an example, at one of our schools, we have three regular adult BJJ classes a day plus women's classes.

    I teach one of those adult Monday through Friday classes a day
    (the class for mainly older and more senior ranked students, who get to attend that class by invitation only),
    and I also give between 10 to 20 private lessons a week.

    The other standing Monday through Friday classes, particularly the two general public adult BJJ classes, are taught by my students who are themselves BJJ black belts.

    If you are the senior ranked guy, it usually a good thing for everybody to have the new black belts get teaching time.

    First, it's good for the new black belts (and the brown belts and everybody really) to learn how to teach.

    Second, it's good for the room because each black belt usually brings their own unique specializations to the room.

    Third, if you as the senior black belt teach all the general classes it can interfere with you having the personal bandwidth to give the high level or up and coming students individual training to accelerate their development.

    Fourth, senior instructors are often (but not always) older.
    In my case, I am middle aged with kids.
    I tire easily, bruise easily, and I make sure that I meet my other obligations.

    Fifth, I do not always keep up with the new move names for old moves, or the latest grappling crazes like the new black belts do; so it is good to get the new black belts in teaching circulation with the up and coming students.
    Conversely, I often am able to pull obscure grappling techniques, applications, trivia, and history from my old muddled brain that people act like they have not seen before or have not thought of. Grappling tricks often cycle in an out of fashion.

    Finally, as a martial arts instructor or a leader in any organization, you should never ever make yourself indispensable.
    You should never give yourself nor trust yourself with dictator like power.
    Set up a flat, empowered, and delegate leadership team structure rather than pyramid shaped leadership team structure.
    Encourage people in co-leadership positions to disagree with you, even when it is inconvenient for you.
    Groom up replacements.
    Be able to take vacations, get sick, or retire without the organization having to stop or slow or taking much of a hit because of it.
    Select, train, and groom up people to be better than you are - to teach better, to grapple better, to make you tap, and throw you.
    And, when your lieutenants want to spilt off and form their own organizations, do everything you can to help them.
    I'm not a head instructor. I am an instructor though. I used to teach 3 classes a week and 3 open mats. I now have dropped down to teaching 2 classes and just attend the other ones and open mats. So I will basically just watch another teacher I out rank teach and then give them pointers after class or maybe pipe up with some useful knowledge I might have.
    I will line the whole school up and roll with everyone in attendance during open mats.

    Point being, there are quite a few ways to do things.
    Last edited by Raycetpfl; 1/05/2017 11:22am at .

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    I'm not a head instructor. I am an instructor though. I used to teach 3 classes a week and 3 open mats. I now have dropped down to teaching 2 classes and just attend the other ones and open mats. So I will basically just watch another teacher I out rank teach and then give them pointers after class or maybe pipe up with some useful knowledge I might have.
    I will line the whole school up and roll with everyone in attendance during open mats.

    Point being, there are quite a few ways to do things.
    Interestingly, in the model I presented I am not the "head" instructor either.

    I am the senior ranked BJJ instructor over seeing the BJJ program,
    But, I am not the BJJ black belt that teaches the majority of the general public BJJ classes.

    And I am not the senior ranked Judo instructor, but at that location
    But, I am the person that holds the highest USJA recognized Judo black belt rank (Sandan),
    mainly because our most senior ranked Judo instructor does not currently care to be active with the USJA.
    And he is really the "head" Judo coach, and certainly the most senior Judo coach on the leadership team,
    even though he is not currently active with the organizations.

    I am a former wrestler, so I teach wrestling moves,
    but we have an ex-college wrestler on board who has more wrestling mat time than I do,
    so he would be the senior wrestling coach, and I would be the assistant wrestling coach.

    What does all that mean?
    It means that rank and hierarchy are not as important as a functioning organization
    where everybody learns from each other, tries to work together, and people are generally getting their needs met.

    We also let all of the members cross train where ever they want,
    and always train other people who stop in regardless of what team they compete under.

    Our model is not for everybody, but it works for that location.
    That location is basically a recreational club, where the majority train a lot,
    but that location is not what I would call a program that is focused on competition
    nor getting people to compete unless they choose to say that they want to.

    When our people do compete, they generally do well, across a few different rulesets.

    But that location is pretty much an open club,
    and what I would call a cross style grappling club with a heavy BJJ emphasis,
    and a lot of the members are recreational players who only compete occasionally.

    And to Rayce's point, there are quite a few different ways to do things.
    Last edited by WFMurphyPhD; 1/05/2017 11:54am at .

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by herb View Post
    I am not accusing anyone as I said before, I am just going off what I found with a google search, but this rabbit hole goes deeper I believe..

    Multiple sources claimed the person was "selling belts" and as I said there are many black belts in very small towns around me. These are not the only 2, awarded from the same person who are in his association, it made me highly suspicious.


    http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/foru...-be:2036616-12

    "Fuzzy Badfeet - ...these two jive-asses nic and wade are the only part I have in this because I rolled with them and know they are blue belts. anyone else is outside my lane, frankly"

    "I bet you that even though every marcello guy on this thread now knows he is a dealer. he sells affiliation, and belts to those affiliates, that not ONE of them will leave. If at this point you have read all of this, and you stay with monteiro then you are admiting that the money, authority, and prestige afforded to you as a result of being a blackbelt is more important to you than legitimately BEING blackbelt."


    See my other links in the original post for more.. No I am not knowledgeable enough to make any determination, that is why I came here to the experts at weeding out the BS, as I said there is more to this story and I do not think it is unfounded. I will continue to dig deeper and post any information about this, thank you everyone for the help.
    I read a good part of that thread. The word on the street is dude sells belts and these dudes in particular are soft, I guess?

    Unless someone comes out and "testified" that they know without a doubt this is what happened and these two are in on the hustle than I don't see this investigation is going anywhere. They received their black belts from a legit source. That the promotion was a sale of rank is pretty much impossible to prove without inside knowledge of the situation or some sort of admission of guilt.

    If you lurk on these forums you will notice I say there are bjj hot spots where the level of skill dwarfs the rest of the country. If you are winning local tourneys in Florida,Cali,Vegas, or the Tri-state area you could very well be one of the baddest dudes in the world. If you win in Minnesota it means you might be the baddest dude in a high school gym on that day because the wrestling team isn't there or you could be really good. Who knows?
    This dude is competing with black belts and didn't get completely rolled up. I am not really willing to call him a fraud or to say how fantastic his technical ability is from watching his videos. He looked like kind of an ordinary dude that didn't get waxed by a GFT black belt. If he's a "blue belt" what's that make the black belt that couldn't put him away and got scored on by him?

    So in short if you wanna train with killers move to cali, Florida ,Vegas or the tri-state area. If you don't...... well these are your options I guess?
    Last edited by Raycetpfl; 1/05/2017 12:37pm at .

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by herb View Post
    I am not accusing anyone as I said before, I am just going off what I found with a google search, but this rabbit hole goes deeper I believe..
    You are in fact making accusations. Your OP claimed that you believed that they were possibly frauds... that is a legal term. You have claimed that they bought their black belts and that they are being disingenuous about their records. So all of that is accusations. If you want to make them please provide proof.

    Quote Originally Posted by herb View Post
    Multiple sources claimed the person was "selling belts" and as I said there are many black belts in very small towns around me. These are not the only 2, awarded from the same person who are in his association, it made me highly suspicious.
    Not all sources are created equal or legitimate. Especially anonymous internet sources. Again please provide actual proof for the claim that someone is selling black belts.


    http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/foru...-be:2036616-12

    Quote Originally Posted by herb View Post
    "Fuzzy Badfeet - ...these two jive-asses nic and wade are the only part I have in this because I rolled with them and know they are blue belts. anyone else is outside my lane, frankly"

    "I bet you that even though every marcello guy on this thread now knows he is a dealer. he sells affiliation, and belts to those affiliates, that not ONE of them will leave. If at this point you have read all of this, and you stay with monteiro then you are admiting that the money, authority, and prestige afforded to you as a result of being a blackbelt is more important to you than legitimately BEING blackbelt."


    See my other links in the original post for more.. No I am not knowledgeable enough to make any determination, that is why I came here to the experts at weeding out the BS, as I said there is more to this story and I do not think it is unfounded. I will continue to dig deeper and post any information about this, thank you everyone for the help.
    You quote this, then you find these links:
    Quote Originally Posted by herb View Post
    I found some on youtube also which I did not think of looking there thanks. He looks talented, but It seems he needs to add a couple losses in his record or he is just omitting them. Both of them say 3-0 record on their sites.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlrFIzbQgiY
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm9TAAnbJBw
    His channel. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdi...ABUFN9hRdKQ5KQ




    “He trains with every one of his students,” Justin Morris said. That sounds a bit odd to me. Who doesnt train with their students? Thanks for the info.

    Maybe I am over paranoid or something but my experiences with teachers in the past has not been good. I really want to thank everyone for looking into this and giving advice.
    This is what it looks like when a fake black belt fights a real black belt:


    In short they typically don't do well, let alone score or win. Now, I will grant that a high level Judoka or Sambist may score a take down, and may even get lucky enough to pull off a quick submission so long as it is a take down to submission. However, even in those cases, once they are on the ground and in guard, the black belt will dominate every time.

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