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  1. #11

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There is no governing body for American Tang Soo Do (ATSD). ATSD is the original version of the Chuck Norris System. Back in the mid-1960s Norris combined Tang Soo Do-Moo Duk Kwan with Shotokan, Shito-ryu, American Kenpo and judo. In 1973, he founded an organization called the “National Tang Soo Do Congress” (NTC), which later became the United Fighting Arts Federation (UFAF) around 1979/1980.

    In 1986 there was a big shake up in the organization between Norris and his top black belt, Pat E. Johnson. Most stayed with Norris, many went with Johnson, and others went off on their own. In 1990, Norris changed the name of his art to “Chun Kuk Do’ (renamed “Chuck Norris System” in 2015) and began making Brazilian jiu-jitsu training a requirement. ATSD is the version of the art prior to 1990.

    Johnson reformed the NTC and other Norris black belts remained independent or formed associations of their own and continued teaching the original Norris system, albeit many have added jiu-jitsu to their curriculums as well. But as far as a main governing body like the JKA, WTF, ITF or IBJJF to look up a certain individual’s rank there isn’t.

    For example, Dennis Ichikawa (9th Dan) received his first (1973) and second (1975) degrees under Norris; everything above that, your guess is as good as mine. Justin received his 7th Dan from his father and their association. I received my Dan ranks from my instructor, who received his from Norris.

    As far as the meaning of rankings go; in traditional Korean Tang Soo Do fourth thru sixth Dan is considered “master”, seventh Dan and above is “grandmaster”. Masters wear a black (or midnight blue) belt with a red stripe down the length of it. Grandmasters will either wear the same aforementioned belt or a belt with two red stripes down the length of it.

    In ATSD, at fourth Dan you are considered a “master”, below that you were simply “Mr.”, “Mrs.” or “Ms.” followed by your last name. As far as “grandmaster” goes, no one, not even Norris called themselves that. Traditionally only plain old black belts (no stripes or tips) were used regardless of rank; at the most maybe your name embroidered on it, but that was generally it. For the most part that has remained the same with some exceptions.

    A few years ago for his organization, Johnson raised the minimum rank to be called a “master” to seventh Dan, no “grandmaster” not even himself. No special belts either. The Ichikawa’s group use the traditional Korean Dan rank system for “master” and “grandmaster”. They also use stripes on their belts to distinguish rank. At fourth Dan they wear a “masters” belt. At seventh Dan they wear a “grandmasters” belt that is the same as the “masters” belt only with a yellow stripe instead of a red one along the length.

  2. #12

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "...42 years later he now has over 900 black belts.."

    Yoda??

  3. #13
    PDA's Avatar
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    Is this a MABs thread because somebody is annoyed that some idiots are calling themselves Grandmasters of bullshit?

    If so ill look forward to its addition to YMAS
    King without a crown

  4. #14
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Owl View Post
    "...42 years later he now has over 900 black belts.."

    Yoda??
    Where is that quote from?

    Quote Originally Posted by PDA View Post
    Is this a MABs thread because somebody is annoyed that some idiots are calling themselves Grandmasters of bullshit?

    If so ill look forward to its addition to YMAS
    I live by the code of " which staff got here first and seems to care the most" method of YMAS'ing and general moderation. I think the Sweet, Nutcracker is giving the thread enough time get it's crap together.

    This one will make an excellent YMAS thread once it splits or moves.
    Last edited by BackFistMonkey; 12/06/2016 7:39am at . Reason: illiteracy
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    “I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Slamming the man in the bottom position from time to time keeps everybody on their toes and discourages butt scooting stupidity.

  5. #15
    submessenger's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PDA View Post
    Is this a MABs thread because somebody is annoyed that some idiots are calling themselves Grandmasters of bullshit?

    If so ill look forward to its addition to YMAS
    I think this qualifies as BS and/or skepticism, at least for the time being. You hit an important point - the art is so easy that you can achieve black belt at 9 years old, and be called grandmaster by your early thirties.

  6. #16
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nutcracker, sweet View Post
    I think this qualifies as BS and/or skepticism, at least for the time being. You hit an important point - the art is so easy that you can achieve black belt at 9 years old, and be called grandmaster by your early thirties.
    I love Justin's excellent martial pedigree. What kind of douche thinks a black belt at 7 years old means anything? It is a meaningless accomplishement. Congrats your parents can sign a check.

    JUSTIN ICHIKAWA
    Rank: 7th Degree Black Belt.
    Justin Ichikawa started training in American Tang Soo Do at the age of 3 under the teachings of Great Grand Master Dennis Ichikawa then promoted to black belt at age 7...
    http://www.towestlakekarate.com/instructors
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    “I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Slamming the man in the bottom position from time to time keeps everybody on their toes and discourages butt scooting stupidity.

  7. #17
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XmasSpiritedAway View Post
    I love Justin's excellent martial pedigree. What kind of douche thinks a black belt at 7 years old means anything? It is a meaningless accomplishement. Congrats your parents can sign a check on monthly basis.


    http://www.towestlakekarate.com/instructors

    ...

    and then you realize he is the spawn of Dennis Ichikawa who's bio the 900 black belts came from.

    Founder and chief instructor Dennis Ichikawa has been training in the martial arts for over 40 years. He started at the Chuck Norris martial arts studio in 1970 and was promoted to the rank of black belt in 1973. Dennis then opened up his first martial arts school (Tarzana Karate) in 1974, fast forward 42 years later he now has over 900 Black Belts, was promoted to the rank of 9th Degree Black Belt by Pat Johnson and owns and operates T.O. Westlake Karate Studio with his son Justin.
    *edit*
    double post fix
    Last edited by BackFistMonkey; 12/06/2016 8:59am at . Reason: made a double post look purposeful
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    “I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Slamming the man in the bottom position from time to time keeps everybody on their toes and discourages butt scooting stupidity.

  8. #18
    PDA's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OK I shot them an email asking them if the 900 black belts is correct and if they can send me a list of the corresponding styles.
    King without a crown

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDA View Post
    OK I shot them an email asking them if the 900 black belts is correct and if they can send me a list of the corresponding styles.
    As I understand that blurb, he now has 900 students ranked at black belt.

  10. #20
    DCS's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cdnronin View Post
    As I understand that blurb, he now has 900 students ranked at black belt.
    I think you're correct.

    Burbank, CA – On January 23, the Martial Arts History Museum will be honoring one of the icons of the martial arts industry, Dennis Ichikawa. Ichikawa was one of the early pioneers of bringing the Korean art of Tang Soo Do into the public eye as he opened a variety of schools in the Southern California area. The two-hour ceremony will take place at 4 pm at the Martial Arts History Museum in Burbank, CA.

    Ichikawa, an instructor of the Chuck Norris System, has produced over 900 students who have reached the level of black belt. A former tournament forms and pointfighting competitor, he began his martial arts career in 1970. In 1974, along with Harold Gross, Ichikawa opened his first school in Tarzana, CA.
    http://mamuseum.cms.ipressroom.com/n...ennis-ichikawa

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